Chiropractors and Acupuncturists - What's your experience

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by Amfibius

Take, for example, a patient who told me that she wanted to go to China to receive a stem cell injection for Parkinson's. My antenna immediately went up - as far as I am aware, this treatment is still in preliminary phase trials and there is no evidence that it would work when injected into an actual human being. Of course it sounds plausible - Parkinsons is a disease of Dopamine deficiency. Inject someone with cells that will implant themselves in your body and produce Dopamine, and you have a cure. But there is no proof that the cells will actually take hold, and not simply be killed by your immune system. That is the difference between plausibility and proof.

Actually, as you may know, it is more complex than that. Not only must the DA cells survive, wherever they are, but that they specifically send their output to the correct targets. Unfortunately, the developmental cues which guided the axons to those targets during development are no longer in place.

[AudioNut]

This discussion has not been very much fun to read. In fact, it has been downright depressing.

I know we discuss all sorts of off the wall stuff here on AA, but surely you guys can find something a little less controversial to beat each other up with. This site is normally very congenial, and this thread appears to be pretty much the opposite.

Sex, politics, religion, any thing, heck - how about LP vs CD? Now there is a subject that can heat up a room - or how about betamax vs. VCR. I'll bet we could polarize the whole membership on that one.

But guys, it looks like we are making enemies with this one.

Let's make up and be friends!

[jetblack]

I have not tried acupuncture, but am ready, willing and able to try it, before I dismiss it.

Chiros, on the other hand, I have had some experience (30 yrs) with. And almost all of my experiences have been positive. Keep in mind that not every chiro will result in a positive experience. You should do a check on where they were trained. My 'issues' were inherited by my Mom. Her 'issues' were inherited by her Mom, and so on, and so on.....

Twenty yrs ago, my Mom had 12 of her vertebrae fused. She's not one of the success stories. She's been on pain meds since.

Bottom line? Regardless of whether it's chiros, or acupuncture, or medical doctors, you need to do your homework!!!

[Masterlu]

Originally Posted by jprice

This discussion has not been very much fun to read. In fact, it has been downright depressing.

I know we discuss all sorts of off the wall stuff here on AA, but surely you guys can find something a little less controversial to beat each other up with. This site is normally very congenial, and this thread appears to be pretty much the opposite.

Sex, politics, religion, any thing, heck - how about LP vs CD? Now there is a subject that can heat up a room - or how about betamax vs. VCR. I'll bet we could polarize the whole membership on that one.

But guys, it looks like we are making enemies with this one.

Let's make up and be friends!

Spoken like the True Wise Man you are!

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Pider

You are going to get passionate responses on all sides of this discussion, especially where there is pain involved. Melinda has a "nephew" who does Rolfing massage, and she swears that she has never felt better than after his sessions, which I don't doubt. The issue is whether or not the approach provides a "cure" for what is causing the problem, or whether it simply provides some temporary relief of the pain. The latter isn't bad; it's just not a solution.

The reason I don't go to chiropractors or those with tiny needles is the same reason I don't go out and buy bucket fulls of supplements. I don't believe they work, or at least I don't see any evidence one way or the other that has anything to do with good science. However, doesn't mean they don't work. There's just no evidence, and I've never been one to go on faith when it comes to gulping down pills (well, at least not since the 70's).

On the other hand, I live in pain each and every day. I know where in my back the discs have bulged or otherwise deteriorated. I've eschewed surgery, thus far. It's getting bad enough though that the quality of life is being threatened. Before the knife, however, I may go let Adam, the "nephew", have a go. Or, go to the Providence spine clinic, which says on their website that non-invasive approaches will be tried before surgery. I like that. Non-invasive. Which probably means a combination of core strengthening, stretching of some type or discipline, and so on. This approach will fit with my beliefs in such things, and hopefully will lead to a lessening of the pain.

I'd start with the less potentially harmful approaches, such as yoga, massage, physical therapy with a reputable sports PT. If these don't get you what you want, then you might want to try a chiropractor. Surgery might actually be less of a risk than a bad chiropractor, but there might be a very talented, careful chiropractor out there whose techniques would be better than any surgery. Get some recommendations from your doc. S/he might be linked into the chiropractic network.

Just remember, snake-oil sales persons exist in great numbers, in all areas where a buck can be made and a non-critical thinking person can be pitched. Heck, without good snake-oil sales persons, where would our consumer-crazed economy be!

Good luck and good healing, man!

Acupuncture effects have been proven and you can find a few great articles in Medline ( PubMed) who describe very clean protocols who proved the effects.
One of them was an RMI of the brain where the patient was asked to concentrate on an image of a black and white panel ( like a chess board ). The activation of the vision area in the brains is shown. Now, they asked an acupuncturist to activate more the center of the vision with a needle in a the particular spot in the toe. Not only all the patients stated that the board was clearer then and more defined, but the IRM shows a deeper and larger activation of the view area in the brains. They repeated this experience with many other areas.
Conventional medecine cannot accept things that are not "explained rationaly". There is no organic substract to the "lines of energy" but still, their effect have been proven now in great universities in the world. We do not know and understand how it works, but it does not mean that it does not work. Moreover, acupuncture and auriculotherapy, an other ancestral chinese traditional "medicine" have been now integrated in various hospitals in the world.
Acupuncture has also been shown to be the best method for quitting smoking.
I agree that, like for any discipline, you have to find a good professional. And of course, in disciplines who are not legally controlled by academic education, chances are higher to see uncompetent persons.
Evidenced based Medecine is the way to go. But we have to admit that many things can "work" while we do not understand the rationale for it.
Some studies have succeded to prove the effects and that is a good point because it shows to the medical corporation that we cannot prove everything but we must admit effects that are superior to placebos.
In the Hippocrate serment, there is a mention about " not feeling that I can treat and understand everything". This is the modesty needed to accept that we cannot understand everything and still, it would be a great privation for the academic Medecine to ignore the traditional "unproven" but empiric medecine. IMHO.

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[howiebrou]

Originally Posted by Still-One

Remember whether it is a MD, DO or Chiropractor 1 out of every 2 finished in the bottom half of their class. Good Luck

JIm

Just remember, the smart ones went to vet school!

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by howiebrou

Just remember, the smart ones went to vet school!

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[Jerome W]

So Alberto, to get back to your problem, just go see a vet ! . After all, man is an animal too !

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[howiebrou]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

So Alberto, to get back to your problem, just go see a vet ! . After all, man is an animal too !

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We're here to help!

[bart]

Originally Posted by jprice

This discussion has not been very much fun to read. In fact, it has been downright depressing.

I know we discuss all sorts of off the wall stuff here on AA, but surely you guys can find something a little less controversial to beat each other up with. This site is normally very congenial, and this thread appears to be pretty much the opposite.

Sex, politics, religion, any thing, heck - how about LP vs CD? Now there is a subject that can heat up a room - or how about betamax vs. VCR. I'll bet we could polarize the whole membership on that one.

But guys, it looks like we are making enemies with this one.

Let's make up and be friends!

Julian, that is exactly why I kept out of this discussion!
Keith is my friend here, and I want to keep it like that...
I am a trained medical doctor AND a homeopath with good notions of manual therapy, and I can speak good things out of both worlds.
These conversations don't help anybody here...