DCS And Upgrades (Or Lack Thereof)

[allen_bh]

Hey guys, why not read my signature block? My name is Bryan....

I'll also take it from the posts here that you're arguing the hardware (the DAC chip) in all their DAC's is identical from model to model? i.e., the ring DAC in the Pagianni, Vivaldi, and Scarlatti are all the same? I don't think so...Why do you think they release a whole new form factor; because they just got tired of the looks?

[mdkim]

Originally Posted by jfray

How are they not comparable in any way? They both at the end of the day play CD's or are used as a DAC........ I understand the price is not comparable. I think people lose sight of why they own a high end system (I own one to listen to music and don't care if something new comes out because I am happy with what I have. It sounds great!). That is my only point...... Buy and don't look back.

I'll give you that the MCD1100 and dCS' digital stacks perform the same basic function(s), namely to turn digital data into music...I know an oversimplification. But, if you believe your MCD1100 performs on par or on equal footing, IMO, you're kidding yourself.

If you're happy with your unit, that is fine. If you think it sounds great, I'll even agree...the MCD1100 is a fine peice of equipment. Other than function, however, it is not comparable to dCS' offerings in the quality of sound it produces.

And, are you implying that anyone spending more money that what your MCD1100 costs has lost sight of why they own a system? That's quite a near-sighted statement.

[allen_bh]

The thing Im not hearing here is whether DCS dealers have programs for current owners to upgrade/trade into newer gear.For example, I know of one manufacturer that will give you what you paid towards a trade up into the latest and greatest product.

[Elberoth]

They probably don't have to, as dCS is releasing new FREE upgrades for their current models to keep them up to date and their customers happy.

If you take the Scarlatti for example, it first received an update that allowed it to accept 24/192kHz material on single AES/EBU and SPDIF inputs, than a new set of apodising filters which improved the sound a lot, and now it is to receive an upgrade that will allow DSD playback. All of those are software updates, that are loaded from the CD - no parts swaping or sending back to the factory necessary.

dCS is known for very long production cycles (the Elgar DAC was manufactured for 11 years) and is one of the very few hi-end companies that DO offer real upgrades for their customers, not only talk about them at product launch. Best of all - most of them are FREE

[jfray]

Originally Posted by mdkim

I'll give you that the MCD1100 and dCS' digital stacks perform the same basic function(s), namely to turn digital data into music...I know an oversimplification. But, if you believe your MCD1100 performs on par or on equal footing, IMO, you're kidding yourself.

If you're happy with your unit, that is fine. If you think it sounds great, I'll even agree...the MCD1100 is a fine peice of equipment. Other than function, however, it is not comparable to dCS' offerings in the quality of sound it produces.

And, are you implying that anyone spending more money that what your MCD1100 costs has lost sight of why they own a system? That's quite a near-sighted statement.

My point has nothing to do with McIntosh other than it is what I currently own so I used it as an example........ What I am saying is there will always be something better to come out in a year and a half. But this shouldn't keep you from buying a quality dCS system. Buy it and enjoy it for many years! However if you continually look over your shoulder after you buy to make sure nothing better comes out you will never be happy.

[allen_bh]

It's nice that DCS isn't leaving the customers of older gear in the dust by providing them software updates. That's the least they could do seeing that their stacks cost anywhere from $60K-110K (historically and currently).

I'm more concerned with how their designs don't include any sort of hardware modularity, which currently tends to preclude piecemeal updates. It's an awful lot of money to get a new Vivaldi stack -- and the Beethoven is just around the corner (I have no idea what their nextgen is going to be called, just going with the naming trend).

[Elberoth]

Hardware modularity is only good when you change the products every 2-3 years like some of the hi-end companies do. After 10 years (ant that is the lifespan of many dCS products), you have to design the product from scratch to keep it up to date.

You do not have to buy a full Scarlatti (Paganini, Vivaldi) stack at one go. I know many ppl who had older stacks (Elgar/Verona/Verdi), and after the Scarlatti came out, replaced the components piece by piece - first got the new DAC, than the new transport, then changed the Verona clock to the Scarlatti one, and eventually invested into the upsampler as well.

With the Vivaldi line things become more complicated, as they ditched the firewire interface, so if you want to use the Vivaldi DAC with the Scarlatti clock/upsampler/transport, you will loose the SACD playback capability. But it is a small price to pay.

[asiufy]

Aren't they (dCS) issuing a software update to enable DSD on the other ports (AES/EBU and SPDIF) ? I thought I read that somewhere... That would render the older gear compatible with the Vivaldi stack.


alexandre

[Cincy2]

Originally Posted by asiufy

Aren't they (dCS) issuing a software update to enable DSD on the other ports (AES/EBU and SPDIF) ? I thought I read that somewhere... That would render the older gear compatible with the Vivaldi stack.


alexandre

Yes. March / April according to their US Sales Manager.

Cincy

[Glisse]

Sounds like the OP/allen_bh/Bryan might be happier with the MSB Platinum range, which are completely modular.

But as many have stated, dCS have expanded their model range, rather than replacing models.

It should also be noted that dCS have relatively strong resale value in a category where the depreciation is usually akin to jumping off a very tall cliff. That's worth a lot of consideration.

For many the issue is that digital seems to be evolving quickly. If you buy an expensive pair of speakers, or amplifiers, they are not going to be out of date in a couple of years. So maybe we are unusually nervous in spending the very large sums required for the state of the art digital equipment. Especially as there are a number of DACs which can get relatively close at much lower price points. It makes it harder to determine the value equation.