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  #111  
Old 08-20-2011, 10:02 AM
Jerome W's Avatar
Jerome W Jerome W is offline
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Cyril, Howie, Michael, Jeff x2, Randy, Scott : many good sense there !
Thanks a lot !
Keep them coming guys !
On a side note, my room is air conditioned so no matter the season and if tubes or SS I use inside, the temperature remains normal !
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Last edited by Jerome W; 08-20-2011 at 10:11 AM.
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  #112  
Old 08-20-2011, 10:13 AM
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Jerome...I also think there may be an impedance mismatch between the Ref 5 and the MC2301s which have an input impedance of 20Kohms (SE)/30Kohms (Balanced), and while the Ref 5 says it recommends a minimum of 20Kohm load (which the MC2301s provide), it usually likes to see a much higher impedance (lower load). If you look at all of ARC's amps, they all have input impedances > 100Kohms. I am not saying there will definitely be an issue but there may be one. Again, you can only try and see what you think. A good comparison if you bring the Ref 5 for an audition will be to compare the tonal balance when it is hooked up to the MC2301s vs. hooking it up to your ARC 100.2. I know the MC2301s are much better than the ARC on a lot of things, but compare the tonal balance characteristics (i.e., if any portion of the frequency band is emphasized or recessed), in one vs. the other. The ARC 100.2 has an input impedance of 150Kohms (single ended) and 300Kohms (balanced).

I remember Bob (Vintage_Tube) tried a Ref 3 with his MC2301s and did not like the combo and compared it to the C500 and found the combo with the MC2301s to be superior.

Last edited by cmalak; 08-20-2011 at 10:18 AM.
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  #113  
Old 08-20-2011, 10:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cmalak View Post
Jerome...I also think there may be an impedance mismatch between the Ref 5 and the MC2301s which have an input impedance of 20Kohms (SE)/30Kohms (Balanced), and while the Ref 5 says it recommends a minimum of 20Kohm load (which the MC2301s provide), it usually likes to see a much higher impedance (lower load). If you look at all of ARC's amps, they all have input impedances > 100Kohms. I am not saying there will definitely be an issue but there may be one. Again, you can only try and see what you think. A good comparison if you bring the Ref 5 for an audition will be to compare the tonal balance when it is hooked up to the MC2301s vs. hooking it up to your ARC 100.2. I know the MC2301s are much better than the ARC on a lot of things, but compare the tonal balance characteristics (i.e., if any portion of the frequency band is emphasized or recessed), in one vs. the other. The ARC 100.2 has an input impedance of 150Kohms (single ended) and 300Kohms (balanced).

I remember Bob (Vintage_Tube) tried a Ref 3 with his MC2301s and did not like the combo and compared it to the C500 and found the combo with the MC2301s to be superior.
Cyril,
Good advice !
And good memory too ! I did not mention my 100.2 often and now that I deleted all the gear of my sig, I'm really impressed.
Hats Down Sir !
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  #114  
Old 08-20-2011, 11:21 AM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Jerome, I think you should stay tuned in next couple of weeks! You don't want to miss the next episode of "Serge gets his 96dB Canterbury and the Shindo Masseto preamp" on our "As the world turns with the Balding and not so beautiful restless audiophiles while seeking the Guiding light ignoring All their children and trying to stay out of the General Hospital" soap opera.
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  #115  
Old 08-20-2011, 11:27 AM
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Jerome...if you stick around and watch Serge's Shindo spectacular, then just go to your wife and tell her there will be no vacations for the next 2 years, and she will not be able to buy any clothes for herself or the kids for the next 5 years
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  #116  
Old 08-20-2011, 11:34 AM
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Originally Posted by cmalak View Post
Jerome...if you stick around and watch Serge's Shindo spectacular, then just go to your wife and tell her there will be no vacations for the next 2 years, and she will not be able to buy any clothes for herself or the kids for the next 5 years
Serge, Cyril : very funny guys !
I knew that I should have stayed away from AA !
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  #117  
Old 08-20-2011, 11:35 AM
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Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
Jerome, I think you should stay tuned in next couple of weeks! You don't want to miss the next episode of "Serge gets his 96dB Canterbury and the Shindo Masseto preamp" on our "As the world turns with the Balding and not so beautiful restless audiophiles while seeking the Guiding light ignoring All their children and trying to stay out of the General Hospital" soap opera.
Serge,
I will wait for your Petrus review and skip the Masseto !
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  #118  
Old 08-20-2011, 12:05 PM
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Originally Posted by sibelius View Post
A Shindo amp on its own is probably not the way to go. I always recommend that prospective owners start out with a Shindo preamp or preferably a preamp/amp combo. IMO, that's where much of the Shindo magic is.
Agreed. Start with pre-
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  #119  
Old 08-20-2011, 01:29 PM
JohnThomas JohnThomas is offline
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Alright who is stepping up to the plate to buy the Shindo Giscours preamp on audiogon? It's got Jerome's name all over it.


I NEED YOU JEROME AS MUCH AS YOU NEED ME
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Last edited by JohnThomas; 08-20-2011 at 03:00 PM.
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  #120  
Old 08-20-2011, 01:30 PM
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Originally Posted by C220MC275 View Post
Now I ' m truly lost !

I read again all the Stereophiles articles about Shindo gear yesterday and I' m really craving to buy the CCQ and at the same time, I cannot ignore what Matt told me and all the messages I received telling me that this was a crazy project.
Not crazy - very much understood, it has an allure and cannot be compared with other gear. It's very unique and sonically strikes a chord within many people.

Those who have not heard it like to lump it within the context of other equipment, or what they have heard other tube gear sound like. They assume Shindo will be more or less the same. It's not.

But, like I mentioned earlier, starting with a preamp is really the way to go.

Oh, btw, to enjoy HT sources, your processor would connect through the Shindo AUX input and you raise volume control to 12~ noon(exact position will be determined with your HT setup sound generator profiles.) Currently, you probably press a bypass button, compared to switching to an AUX input and turning the knob to twelve noon, if you used Shindo. Not quite as elegant as to what you are used to, but for many of my customers works seamlessly.

Remote, well, you could always hit 'pause' on the cd player if you needed to 'mute' the system quickly.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C220MC275 View Post
I'm impressed by all the comments I read on the web both by owners and pro reviewers ( even if the last are pretty rare )
Yes, actually, there are quite a bit of excellent reviews - some listed on the tone imports website, for your perusal, when you have time.

Tone Imports Product Reviews

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Originally Posted by C220MC275 View Post
This is based on the love I had for the Verdier 845 class A Set amps. They managed the EB1i pretty good in the bass and the treble and were only 20 W in class A. So how come the Shindo CCQ could not do the job ?
It's not a speaker I typically see paired with tube electronics too often, so I'm just a bit cautious, that's all. Knowing what I know about Shindo there is a large chance the CCQ's will drive the hell out of your speakers and you will love them. All Shindo amps gobs of drive and heft - on the appropriate speaker.. This isn't unique to Shindo amps- all tube gear should be matched well to the speaker. All to often I see guys running 8wpc amps on Harbeth and they wonder why their system is lacking in dynamics!

Quote:
Originally Posted by C220MC275 View Post
Still, all amps are different. The Shindo could have more trouble than the Verdier !
I definitely know the Shindo won't have more trouble, in that comparison.

Quote:
Originally Posted by C220MC275 View Post
..but seriously, even with the great things I read about them, I have serious doubts that the Shindo phono stage could be as good as the REF 2....).


I'm sure the AR preamp you own is very good, indeed. I do like their products! Yes, for some, the feature set of the AR will completely negate any possibility of considering a Shindo preamp. Most people, though, never use half of the bells and whistles most components have now a days.

But, respectfully, they are so very different, and can't be compared apples to apples. But, I would like you to hear one at some point - A Shindo pre, that is. For example, the Monbrison preamp has been in production since 1996. The Giscours around 1986!~. The Evolutionary changes aside, there are few companies that can say that about one of their flagship products. It's a highly evolved design - not changed drastically every 12 months like other companies, to maintain market share.

Proof is in the listening.

I love the fact you desire Shindo and want to appreciate some of this designs. 2 x

As they say, 'the shortest answer is doing'.

Perhaps you need to try it and see how it goes - but my advice above still stands regarding the preamp.

Sincerely,

-Matt
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