Dennis Had Inspire Amps

[pstrisik]

Originally Posted by Musica Amantem

pstrisik: "However, I only recently have found configuration that gives me enough slam with classical. Without the mid-woofers, I never experienced it. Orchestral music had been interesting, but once I got the mid-woofers dialed in, I started choosing classical more often. I think it is quite difficult to get proper sound with full orchestra. Until I heard it, I never new what was possible."

Yes, DBC is the guy I was mostly referring to, and I remember he used to swear by the HSU mid-woofers:

hsuresearch.com/products/mbm-12mk2.html MBM-12 MK2 Mid-Bass Module

Are there better alternatives out there?

Mine are Rythmik components with custom boxes made by Louis. Brian (Rythmik) sells the plate amp and 8" driver for $419. Look for "CI kit M7" on the page rythmikaudio.com/DS800ci.html. You can make cabinets yourself (.7cf volume) or have them made.

[Musica Amantem]

Originally Posted by pstrisik

Mine are Rythmik components with custom boxes made by Louis. Brian (Rythmik) sells the plate amp and 8" driver for $419. Look for "CI kit M7" on the page rythmikaudio.com/DS800ci.html. You can make cabinets yourself (.7cf volume) or have them made.

I know you are convinced the mid-woofers make a big difference in body of sound and such. What is the advantage of the Rythmik set and Louis's cabinets?
I know the HSU costs $600.00 each (on real wood, which apparently is the only choice on these), so that means a $1,200.00 investment! Rythmik set would be about $840.00 plus Louis's cabinets cost, which would probably exceed the HSU total price ... Is it worth the difference? Would this be advisable in a smallish listening room? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

[pstrisik]

Originally Posted by Musica Amantem

I know you are convinced the mid-woofers make a big difference in body of sound and such. What is the advantage of the Rythmik set and Louis's cabinets?
I know the HSU costs $600.00 each (on real wood, which apparently is the only choice on these), so that means a $1,200.00 investment! Rythmik set would be about $840.00 plus Louis's cabinets cost, which would probably exceed the HSU total price ... Is it worth the difference? Would this be advisable in a smallish listening room? Any thoughts would be appreciated. Thanks!

Rythmik will typically offer 10% discount when you buy two subs. The same may be true for two of these kits.

I am absolutely sold on Brian Ding's work. He has a proprietary servo design and flexible configuration options in the amps not to mention solid build quality all around. I have two of his F12 - 12" subs. They go down to 14hz and are as musical as you can imagine for subs. He uses the same technology for these 8" drivers in addition to using paper cones and foam surrounds to add to the light and fast factor. They are designed for sealed boxes and can be front or down firing. I know the HSU are down firing and I think are 10" - both factors seem disadvantageous to me. I don't know about HSU's amps or configuration setting flexibility. I don't think he uses servo technology.

I've never heard the HSU's, so can't give a real world experience comparison. I went for the Rythmik though, given my experience with Brian's subs.

Now, while these mid woofers will extend up to 200hz, I have them crossed at 60hz, giving the SAMs more of the band to do their magic. So the midwoofers really became a luxury as good subs will certainly cover everything below 60. Having separate duty from 14-30 and 30-60 however, has really provided icing on the cake. In a small room in particular, I would first go with the monitors and an excellent pair of subs run in stereo. That $1200+ becomes expensive for the added benefit unless you are going to run them up to 100+Hz.

Having said all that, having Louis make matching cabinets so I have that unified speaker "system" is priceless. They will certainly run on their own without the need for subs since they can be configured to extend down to either 30hz or 50hz.

[Musica Amantem]

Originally Posted by pstrisik

Rythmik will typically offer 10% discount when you buy two subs. The same may be true for two of these kits.

I am absolutely sold on Brian Ding's work. He has a proprietary servo design and flexible configuration options in the amps not to mention solid build quality all around. I have two of his F12 - 12" subs. They go down to 14hz and are as musical as you can imagine for subs. He uses the same technology for these 8" drivers in addition to using paper cones and foam surrounds to add to the light and fast factor. They are designed for sealed boxes and can be front or down firing. I know the HSU are down firing and I think are 10" - both factors seem disadvantageous to me. I don't know about HSU's amps or configuration setting flexibility. I don't think he uses servo technology.

I've never heard the HSU's, so can't give a real world experience comparison. I went for the Rythmik though, given my experience with Brian's subs.

Now, while these mid woofers will extend up to 200hz, I have them crossed at 60hz, giving the SAMs more of the band to do their magic. So the midwoofers really became a luxury as good subs will certainly cover everything below 60. Having separate duty from 14-30 and 30-60 however, has really provided icing on the cake. In a small room in particular, I would first go with the monitors and an excellent pair of subs run in stereo. That $1200+ becomes expensive for the added benefit unless you are going to run them up to 100+Hz.

Having said all that, having Louis make matching cabinets so I have that unified speaker "system" is priceless. They will certainly run on their own without the need for subs since they can be configured to extend down to either 30hz or 50hz.

Thanks for all that valuable information. I like my Tekton Lore 2.0's and I currently only use a Velodyne 3500 DSP Sub (8" / 60 Watts), crossed over at 80 Hz to reinforce lower frequencies in the 50-80 range (I don't think my Sub can go lower than 45 Hz or so).

Having stereo Subs sounds interesting ... Never tried that or heard that setting before. In the past, it was believed bass frequencies were non-directional, so one Sub would be enough, but this belief has obviously changed in the last decade or so.

I also don't know how much power the Sub amp should have not to overcome the smallish listening room (11.5 ft x 9 ft x 9 ft) with excessive booming.

I agree the first step would be to have stereo Subs of audiophile quality to replace my Velodyne and cross them at 80 Hz. Does Brian also make the cabinets or ready to use Sub units? Thanks again!

[MWalt]

I can't speak for the Rythmik mid woofers, but I do have a Rythmik FV-12 Sub and it is stellar. Good products!

[pstrisik]

Originally Posted by Musica Amantem

Thanks for all that valuable information. I like my Tekton Lore 2.0's and I currently only use a Velodyne 3500 DSP Sub (8" / 60 Watts), crossed over at 80 Hz to reinforce lower frequencies in the 50-80 range (I don't think my Sub can go lower than 45 Hz or so).

Having stereo Subs sounds interesting ... Never tried that or heard that setting before. In the past, it was believed bass frequencies were non-directional, so one Sub would be enough, but this belief has obviously changed in the last decade or so.

I also don't know how much power the Sub amp should have not to overcome the smallish listening room (11.5 ft x 9 ft x 9 ft) with excessive booming.

I agree the first step would be to have stereo Subs of audiophile quality to replace my Velodyne and cross them at 80 Hz. Does Brian also make the cabinets or ready to use Sub units? Thanks again!

He does make finished subs - typically in black matte vinyl or black oak vinyl and with piano black on some models for extra $. He makes subs with these 8" drivers, but with dual drivers, either as subs or amp configured for mid-bass use at $849 (rythmikaudio.com/FM8.html).

L12 is his entry level sealed sub (rythmikaudio.com/L12.html) at $569 each or $512 each if you buy two. He also has an equivalent entry level ported sub at the same price. He generally recommends sealed for music and ported for home theater.

Check out his website; he has quite a bit of educational info there if you do some digging; look for links in the text of the product descriptions. Email or call him for consult or visit the discussion thread (very long - don't try to read it all!) - avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1214550-official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread.html.

I believe the links are permitted as long as they are not live.

[pstrisik]

As far as stereo vs. mono subs, many will assert that it makes no difference as we can't locate frequencies below some number. It's true that I couldn't perceive location of the subs either way, but I found that the overall presentation seemed more clear. I think it has more to do with how the subs enhance the perception of the frequencies from the mains, maybe by providing more over, or is it under, tones. Educated guesses.

But, I have to acknowledge that another variable that changed when I went from mono to stereo was the preamp. With the mono setup, I had my Onkyo HT pre/pro power the subs. I had output from my DAC go to both the Inspire pre and the Onkyo pre/pro (it was nice to have separate remote control of the subs' volume and it worked to integrate HT with 2 channel setups). When I went to stereo, I fed each sub from one of the Inspire preamp channel outputs. So there would be some sound quality difference from that.

[Simonatsea]

Originally Posted by Musica Amantem

I have been interested over time in the Zu Audio Souls (not the Super Souls), given their good sensitivity ratings and 8 Ohm impedance. Some people really swear by them. Curious how you instead prefer the 85 dB speakers in a smaller room ... I also have the DACT attenuator on my LP-27a, but still find the system just enough in power/SPL. Of course, room conditioning makes a big difference to kill booming and piercing highs, balancing the sound spectre across frequencies ... But, this is something that definitely robs SPL as less reflected sound gets to the sweet spot.

To be honest the Kef's have delivered in spades. They really show off the abilities of The Inspire gear. I did have jaw dropping moments with the Zu's but as I mostly listen at low levels the Kef's have my vote. I have 16 ohm output transformers on my 6V6 amp as well to match the superflys.

Side note, I added a .47 uf sprogue bypass cap to the LP-2 outputs. I have since removed them, they took away a bit of the reach out and touch realism and also closed in the soundstage and separation a bit. Yet to instal the Audyn copper max 1.5uf output caps in the LP-2 as I have yet to build the chassis spacer.

[Musica Amantem]

"Check out his website; he has quite a bit of educational info there if you do some digging; look for links in the text of the product descriptions. Email or call him for consult or visit the discussion thread (very long - don't try to read it all!) - avsforum.com/forum/113-subwoofers-bass-transducers/1214550-official-rythmik-audio-subwoofer-thread.html."

I'm on it. Thanks so much for all the valuable thoughts! I think I may start with just one Sub (12") and see how it goes. I usually connect Subs at the high-level speaker inputs from the amp into the Sub. I used to connect a bass cable from the preamp out into the Sub´s line level input, but the former configuration sounds much better to my ears. BTW, my Velodyne is 160 watts, not 60 watts, as I wrote by mistake.

[Musica Amantem]

Upgrades in the pipeline (hopefully to be implemented gradually over time, $$$):

1 Pair of Genalex GL KT66 (soon)
1 Psvane UK 6SN7 (soon)
1 additional Pair of Impact RCA IC's (soon)
1 pair of Copper Foil Jupiter Caps (0.022) (soon)
1 12" Rythmik Sub (Matte Black) (mid-term)
1 USB Regen unit (between Laptop & DAC) (mid-term)

I have been saving for a while now ...