What to do about phono stage for Innovation Wood -- Fosgate?

[Removed]

Here is an option until funds permit......it appears you like your 1131 so take a look at the Phonomena II. its really a great MM/MC phono stage for the money.....has lot's of gain and loading options for MM/MC. It will work well with your 1131 SUT.....what I really like about the Phonomena is its adjustable MM gain settings which I find useful when I run a few of my SUT.....I find many times something up around 44-48dB of gain is needed with many of the SUT's......just a thought until your ready to move up the food chain and you wouldn't be spending a bunch of monies that could be allocated for what you really want later on.

[mulveling]

Still waiting for the Clearaudio Innovation 'table & Graham arm to arrive...still no funds for a decent phono stage, but can't stop looking. Should've bought that BAT VK-P10SE that came up (briefly) for sale over the weekend for 3K, anyways

Now I'm thinking that Aesthetix stuff looks nice, and I could probably get a decent deal on a Rhea, Rhea Sig, or IO (Mk II for now, until I can upgrade). The tube-eating stories don't worry me so much; I'm more concerned about reports of excessive noise. Stereophile measured the Rhea's signal/noise at a very marginal 51dB unweighted (IIRC the SF Phono 1 was > 70dB). I'd be using the 0.3mV Koetsu, but my line stage has enough gain (> 20dB) that I could set the phono as low as 55dB gain -- would that help with noise on the IO, or not?

Currently, the line stage itself contributes a slightly noticeable noise floor on these 96dB speakers w/ high-sensitivity (250 Watts @ 1V) amps, but it's within my acceptance level (normal for a high gain linestage, and no hum). However, if it gets too high, that would become annoying, especially with the level of upstream gear.

Anyone here used an Aesthetix phono with a low output MC?

[petro85]

Originally Posted by mulveling

Still waiting for the Clearaudio Innovation 'table & Graham arm to arrive...still no funds for a decent phono stage, but can't stop looking. Should've bought that BAT VK-P10SE that came up (briefly) for sale over the weekend for 3K,

I saw that too it was up and gone fast. I thought about it for a minute. Same thing happened couple weeks ago was $2800 and went just as fast. Have to be quick with those it seems.
I too am in the phonostage market I been reading about them for weeks . Good luck

[Josquin des Prez]

I am using a Musical Surroundings Nova Phonomena right now, but will be auditioning a the Fosgate within the next couple weeks. I will also have a chance to try out a Magnify arm on my Ovation table.

[Mikado463]

Originally Posted by mulveling

Thanks to all for your input so far.



Fosgate -- Like the all-tube gain, and can purchase from local dealer, but its relatively high noise levels may preclude use of its MC stage in my setup. Thinking MM mode + 1131 here.

.

mul, as the others have said , nice system ! I too am a fan of Mr Obrien and Rouge Audio along with the Fosgate phono stage, I must say in my set up (VPI Aries III, Benz Glider with the Fosgate feeding into an ARC LS-27 then onto a pair of Rogue M-180's and finally to Martin Logan Spire's) I have NO noise level issues to deal with.

[mulveling]

Well guys, a couple weeks ago I made a rash decision and got the Sonic Frontiers Phono 1 SE+. I was a bit concerned about the mods and Siemens 6922 tubes perhaps making the sound drier than the old stock unit I'd loved a couple years back. That was unfounded; even with all the other system changes, the Phono 1 SE+ yielded all those things I loved about my prior unit: quiet, warm & smooth yet highly detailed sound, with a good 3D sound staging; nice depth to the image. Can't say how SE+ compares to to the stock off of memory, other than that the major attributes I've listed out are common to both units. I'm satisfied the Phono 1 SE+ is probably giving me about all the sound I can get at this price level.

I'll repeat that it was a mistake to sell my old Phono 1 for a Rogue Ares -- as much as I'm a fan of Rogue gear, their phono stages sounded good but never really struck a chord with me, in the long run. I was really set on having an all tube system (the Phono 1 uses 2 JFET's for step-up), and the thought of a top of the line all-Rogue system also appealed to me. I let silly non-priorities get a bit ahead of the music.

Later, when I got the VAC Renaissance III, its built in phono sounded like a revelation compared to the Ares! Not in detail retrieval (on par there), but in musical enjoyment. Tonally the Ares is just too dry for me -- I pushed it far with tube rolling, but at some point it got ridiculous (it's almost impossible to find a pair of Type I RCA 12BH7 that are quiet enough for a phono). When I tried SUTs, both the Ares and VAC got more detailed with the Bob's Devices Cinemag 1131, but the Ares got even drier while it was a perfect matching with the VAC (really, really nice combo). The VAC was a touch on the warm side with the built-in Lundahl SUT, and just right with the 1131 -- superb detail and musical flow. I also tried the Hashimoto SUT, but ended up preferring the Cinemag.

The Eddie Current Transcription has a nice, close-to-neutral tonal balance in stock form (built-in Cinemag 3440 SUT), but displays some minor flaws -- especially in the bass and treble -- when compared to using the 1131. And though that latter pairing is very good, it also takes the EC just a touch to the dry side for my tastes. Even with 1131, it still slightly lags behind the detail of SF Phono SE+.

The SF Phono 1 SE+ was perhaps just a touch on the too-warm side for my system with SOTA Star table, but I still preferred it over the Transcription (with or without 1131) because of its cleaner treble and more detail. I'm certain it's at least on par with the VAC + 1131, though I can't directly compare them to determine an overall winner (sold the VAC). Now, with the arrival of a Clearaudio Innovation & Graham rig, the SF makes it almost an ideal combination tonally! Very nice phono stage that unfortunately gets less well known and harder to source with the passing years since SF's demise.

Funny thing is I've also heard a SF Line 1, and expected similar sonics to the Phono 1 -- boy was that disappointing. You couldn't tell they were from the same line. The Line 1 got clobbered by Rogue preamps; it was anemic in bass and slightly bright and harsh up top. It's not even up to the level of a Metis, and the Athena / Hera are worlds away. I think SF just nailed the hell out of this phono stage at the price point. Build quality is impressive too, and it's nice to have a phono stage that has some mass and doesn't feel like a toy.

[cmalak]

Mulverlling...congrats on the SF Phono 1 SE+

[TMcD]

Congrats. I loved SF stuff. A Line 1 was my first true "high end" component.

[taters]

Originally Posted by mulveling

Puma Cat,
Thanks for the recs; the Zesto in particular has caught my eye, but for now it's a bit above budget. Hoping to find something ~ $2K that'll at least tide me over for some months without being an obvious system weak point. If I fall in love and want to keep it longer, then all the better! I'll keep the 1131 SUT for now, so MM-only stages, or stages with a weaker MC section remain an option.

There's advantage to sticking with my long-time local dealer here, hence the interest in Fosgate, as he carries Musical Surroundings. Also carries Rogue, but I've been down that road. And VAC, but their only standalone phono is the $50K Statement -- which is not happening in this lifetime Wish they made a standalone version of the stage they put in their preamps!

For 2200.00 the Manley Chinook is getting good press. See if you can borrow one or order it from one of the big mail order firms that give you 30 days to try it.

[mulveling]

Originally Posted by taters

For 2200.00 the Manley Chinook is getting good press. See if you can borrow one or order it from one of the big mail order firms that give you 30 days to try it.

I should be set now with the SF Phono 1 SE+ until I'm ready to move up to a fully balanced stage. Though interestingly, the Phono 1 and Chinook both use 2x JFET and 4x 6922. Manley doesn't seem too keen on advertising the usage of those JFET's. I have to admit, being a pretty rabid tube guy, if I hadn't first experienced how good it can sound, I'd have been unfairly biased against the idea. Those JFET's are now the only transistors I've got in a signal path that's stocked with 30 tubes.