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  #11  
Old 02-10-2011, 09:36 PM
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Here is a link to a very informative article on how to choose what size tube traps and where to place them.

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  #12  
Old 02-11-2011, 01:05 AM
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Originally Posted by chessman View Post
Here is a link to a very informative article on how to choose what size tube traps and where to place them.

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Nice light reading... :confused-37:
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:30 AM
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Nice light reading... :confused-37:
Yeah, it is tough going in one read. I do not have fat enough tubes to really handle the fundamental wave (550/24 = 22.9, so I need 24" wide full rounds). For the first harmonic I theoretically need 20" full rounds (1110/24 = 46). Mine are mostly 11" with a pair of 16" and sound awfully good for being "wrong." Mine are also in the "wrong spots" for their respective sizes and yet, again, they sound awfully good.

It boils down to any are better than none. Knowing my chronic weakness for upgrades and my bias for credentials, I will probably ultimately buy some 24's and move the back 11's to first reflection point duty.
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Old 02-11-2011, 01:58 AM
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Randy.......Understand that you do not have to tune the room for every low frequency, only those that create exaggerated nodes, or standing waves. Sounds to me like you have managed to tame your room quite well with the traps you have installed.
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Old 02-11-2011, 02:16 AM
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Dan ... I do not have the waterfall graphs to prove it, but by ear I am sure that the decay times have really evened out. The sudden "lock" into realistic sounding is what has me so jazzed about these tube traps. I think the first order harmonics of the bass notes were muddying up the mid-range, which is why 11's are working when theory says 24's. The subs are not on for music, which is another reason I am getting away with the 11's. Getting 24's would be wretched excess ... like that has ever stopped me.

Last edited by chessman; 02-11-2011 at 02:38 AM. Reason: Took out fatigue induced stupidity
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Old 02-11-2011, 03:54 PM
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I spent the last several hours experimenting and learning just how effective these Tube Traps really are. RANDY IS RIGHT ON!!!!

Initially, there were some things I really liked and others I had questions about. I talked again with Mike - these guys at ASC are great - and he gave me a plan of attack to adjust them to my particular environment. You know these babies work when rotating the top and/or the bottoms, changes the listening quality and environment. Because my speakers are almost 7' tall, line array and located in an alcove, experimentation was the best way to find a solution and, I did. My soundstage, bass detail and mid-range sweetness is better than ever. It is the soundstage which is most dramatic as well as instrument isolation and individuality in the overall sound presentation.
I have 8 Cinema Panels (Tri-Panels) 1'x4' coming shortly (Mike, I said shortly) that I will be installing on the ceiling. The tube traps are very light, easy to handle and set up. I highly recommend them.
Howard
My Pics are at Post #5
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Old 02-11-2011, 04:06 PM
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Howard
The way they almost hide behind the 1Ks I guess you are not getting too much hassle from Val. Nice upgrade.

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  #18  
Old 02-11-2011, 06:59 PM
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Default The story behind...

Quote:
Originally Posted by chessman View Post
Here is a link to a very informative article on how to choose what size tube traps and where to place them.

Product Articles
Thank you for posting a link to that article. Note the article's original publish date, 1989. I asked Art Noxon about the back story, it's very interesting.

The Tubes that J. Peter Moncrieff used for review actually came from Monster Cable. For the first year of it's life, the TubeTrap company was a subsidiary of Monster Cable. Noel Lee evaluated the Tube, found they did what audiophiles would want, and took on TubeTraps. Alas, they didn't sell well at first, so Noel and Art parted ways, with Art starting the Acoustic Sciences company. A short time later, the first Peter Moncrieff review came out, and Art couldn't make TubeTraps quickly enough.

This article is the second review Peter did. It formed the basis for what later became the 2C3D Room. This was a collaboration with MIT Cables, Spectral amplifiers, Avalon speakers, and ASC TubeTraps. Using the 2C3D design method, you could create a reference-level 2-channel listening environment that was repeatable anywhere. We still design and build these rooms today.

The article is long, but its full of a lot of useful information. Like the laws of physics, its still true today, 22 years later.

Michael Adams
ASC TubeTraps
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  #19  
Old 02-11-2011, 07:51 PM
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Default What's that sound

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Originally Posted by chessman View Post
As I mentioned in the other thread ....

5) Although I know it's not possible, it seems like the mains play an octave lower than before. I suspect they always played this low, but the uneven decay time was creating a bit of the dreaded "one note bass" which was drowning out the lower register. I actually checked to make sure I wasn't running through the DVD port, which would kick in the subs. They were not even on and I broke into a huge grin.

In short, ASC tube traps are the real deal.
Thank you for the rave review! Over the years, we have found that the result you get with TubeTraps is almost exactly your list of improvements.

I wanted to address #5, because it brings up a very good point about the world of acoustics we have discovered.

What we work on most are the attack transients, at the front of the room. A couple results of that approach:
1. the "one note bass" is a lingering tone, it really calls attention to itself. By contrast, your music is a series of transients, easily drowned out (or masked) by the one lingering tone. Get rid of the lingering tone, and the transients really shine.
2. transients are spikes of sound energy, and according to electrical engineers a spike or transient is made up of "all possible frequencies". That means when your speaker produces a transient (pick a note, any note) it is actually stimulating all possible room modes at the front of the room, simultaneously. Can you imagine a loud bass note that is briefly accompanied by a score of higher tones? That is what a normal room sounds like, the front end with the speakers rings like a bell with every note. Now, take away that ringing, and all you hear is the original note, without the ringing added. Your report that it sounds like it's playing a lower note would make sense. More accurately, your room has had the higher-pitched ringing removed, so now the ROOM is playing just the lower note.

Much of what we work on is noise that is so closely mated to the sound you want that you can't hear the noise, you just hear sound+noise. And you think, "I guess that is the limit to how good this can sound". When you remove the noise, suddenly the sound sounds much better.

Michael Adams
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  #20  
Old 02-11-2011, 07:58 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hkval View Post
I spent the last several hours experimenting and learning just how effective these Tube Traps really are. RANDY IS RIGHT ON!!!!

Initially, there were some things I really liked and others I had questions about. I talked again with Mike - these guys at ASC are great - and he gave me a plan of attack to adjust them to my particular environment. You know these babies work when rotating the top and/or the bottoms, changes the listening quality and environment. Because my speakers are almost 7' tall, line array and located in an alcove, experimentation was the best way to find a solution and, I did. My soundstage, bass detail and mid-range sweetness is better than ever. It is the soundstage which is most dramatic as well as instrument isolation and individuality in the overall sound presentation.
I have 8 Cinema Panels (Tri-Panels) 1'x4' coming shortly (Mike, I said shortly) that I will be installing on the ceiling. The tube traps are very light, easy to handle and set up. I highly recommend them.
Howard
My Pics are at Post #5
Howard, we'll take care of you on your panels, don't worry. I'm curious, though, which way did the chrome buttons end up facing for the best sound?

For those who don't know, the front half of the Tube (where the chrome button is) is covered with a treble diffusing panel, while the back isn't. This makes the Tubes adjustable, either directing ambiance one or another, or simply absorbing everything. It can take some experimenting to hear where the best balance is, and that is what Howard worked on.

Michael Adams
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