#21
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Quote:
Ken
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McIntosh C2300:Gold Lions 12AX7, McIntosh MC452, McIntosh D1100 , Bryston bdp-3, McIntosh MEN220 Linn Sondek 25th LP-12 upgraded, Encounter MK-3, Lyra Delos, Wegne Plinth, Ultra Origin DC motor, Cetech Subchassis Sonus Faber Cremona, (2) JL Audio F110 subs, Squeeze Server v7.9 Windows 2012 Server 25TB, Audio Metallurgy GA-0 XLR & RCA, Wireworld Silver Eclipse speaker cable, PS Audio Power Plant Premier (2), WireWorld Silver Power Cables, Tascam DA3000 |
#22
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Quote:
Ken
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McIntosh C2300:Gold Lions 12AX7, McIntosh MC452, McIntosh D1100 , Bryston bdp-3, McIntosh MEN220 Linn Sondek 25th LP-12 upgraded, Encounter MK-3, Lyra Delos, Wegne Plinth, Ultra Origin DC motor, Cetech Subchassis Sonus Faber Cremona, (2) JL Audio F110 subs, Squeeze Server v7.9 Windows 2012 Server 25TB, Audio Metallurgy GA-0 XLR & RCA, Wireworld Silver Eclipse speaker cable, PS Audio Power Plant Premier (2), WireWorld Silver Power Cables, Tascam DA3000 |
#23
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Quote:
Ken
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McIntosh C2300:Gold Lions 12AX7, McIntosh MC452, McIntosh D1100 , Bryston bdp-3, McIntosh MEN220 Linn Sondek 25th LP-12 upgraded, Encounter MK-3, Lyra Delos, Wegne Plinth, Ultra Origin DC motor, Cetech Subchassis Sonus Faber Cremona, (2) JL Audio F110 subs, Squeeze Server v7.9 Windows 2012 Server 25TB, Audio Metallurgy GA-0 XLR & RCA, Wireworld Silver Eclipse speaker cable, PS Audio Power Plant Premier (2), WireWorld Silver Power Cables, Tascam DA3000 |
#24
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I think a good real world example is when Hi-fi News reviewed both the Melco N1Z and N1A.
When used with its network setup the measurements showed minimal improvements, in fact the only improvement was over jitter that was still very low. The review done with the N1A went even further and to try and create a situation where the network functionality showed a slight improvement he had to change his network infrastructure to a more noisy/basic setup (using the router hub rather than a quality switch). This suggests an Ethernet cable is not really the challenge here, although it does make sense buying a well built-shielded one but this does not need to be incredibly expensive. Just to add the Melco's do show a big improvement with its USB setup when compared to a PC/MacBook (using USB). Unfortunately neither of these reviews with their measurements are online (did a quick search). Cheers Orb |
#25
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Thanks for pricking my bubble Julian. I do believe there are differences in most cables (and ropes), although I'm not entirely sure about ethernet. What I also believe is that, if you're going to claim scientific validity for test results, then the test should be rigorous and scientific and not just staged, biased theatrics. I also know that you can't test for everything, even with rope. You can test all you want, but often the only way to know for sure how a product will perform, is to put it in the hands of users and let them work with it over an extended period of time in their system - and then trust the judgment of experienced, trained users.
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Tony D'Agostino Momentum S250 MxV & HD pre; Linn Klimax Organik DSM, SonicTransporter, EtherRegen; Acoustic Signature Typhoon Neo, Koetsu RSP, Boulder 1108; Sf Il Cremonese; Shunyata Everest, Altaira, Sigma & Alpha v2 Last edited by Antonmb; 08-01-2015 at 05:21 PM. |
#26
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I think you misunderstood what I was saying. The price of a cable that will not introduce jitter is another matter. I agree it probably won't require three, or more, figures.
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Bud |
#27
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I would not rely on the Ars Technica site, or its personnel, to dismantle my power amplifier and tell me whether it represented good value or not. This is a click/bait exercise for them, which seems to be successful.
No offence to the OP, but the people who seem most vocal on this issue (the value or not of cables) tend to have seldom done any comparisons between cables. And by comparison, I mean listening, not cutting them apart. There is no accreditation system for ethernet protocol standards, just because a cable has 5e/6/6a/7 printed on it doesn't mean it will meet those standards. The role of shielding, specifically the differences in requirements between network appliances and audio systems is significant. Forget about jitter and transmission errors for a moment. Cables such as Cat 6A with shields connected to ground at both ends may dump noise into your system: it was interesting to see that AQ had floated the shield ground at one end of the Vodka cable. How many people here are using network appliances, such as switches, routers, NAS etc with grounded connections? I suspect very few to none. Where does the shield noise then go? As an aside, get rid of the cheap SMPS used by switches, NAS, routers etc, that are on the same circuits as an audio system. This is the primary source of much of the electrical noise piggybacking on ethernet cables - RFI/EMI being the rest. Ars did not include an AQ Pearl cable as well. The Vodka is AQ's second from the top ethernet cable - very much overbuilt with serious connectors, thick silver coating over premium copper wire, etc, etc. Pearl is not much more than Blue Jeans Cable (who just terminate Belden or Canare raw cable, they are not cable designers). Yet Pearl is guaranteed like all AQ cables. Guess this would not be so "newsworthy"? On my own anecdotal experiences, and I now use ethernet connections in all of my audio systems, about 25% of the time I can hear a difference between ethernet cables, the rest none. There is no "rule", or definitive yes/no scenario here. I don't have any expectation bias one way or another. But I very much doubt that if I listened via headphones connected to a Dell laptop that I would hear any difference between anything at all. That the test itself was rigged was hardly a surprise, given those involved and the agenda. Like anything in audio, to see what works, and what doesn't, JUST LISTEN |
#28
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It would seem any test of an Ethernet cable should include a measure of number of dropped packets or number of packets that had errors. Since even dropped packets are re-sent this should not cause any data errors this would not be a problem unless cable was really screwed up. Therefore if it sounds different it would likely be noise coupling into the system somehow. Then it seems you are also testing the Streamer or whatever's ability to not pass along or be affected by this noise.
In any case, Shielded twisted pair cable is available from mono price for a few dollars. So what is Audioquest or whoever really selling you? Do they even know? Or care? I remain skeptical, but admit I haven't compared Ethernet cables in an audio system. |
#29
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I know they use their own DBS Dielectric Bias System using 72v
http://www.positive-feedback.com/Iss...st_diamond.htm
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Ivan FLORIDA MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES CAPE COD MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES |
#30
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So application and session control would use TCP, but the actual audio stream would be UDP and without same correction integrity. TBH this should not be too much of an issue for a wired connection (maybe some influence if using a cheap and basic hub router with everything going through that *shrug*), but can have adverse effect when using wireless (for many reasons including shared contention and signal quality-strength). Cheers Orb Last edited by Orb; 08-02-2015 at 08:06 PM. |
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