Eliminating Digital Thinness of Tone--Which Electronics?

[Steady339]

The only way I have been able to totally eliminate digital thinness of tone originating from my system electronics is to go with a tube based system.

Are there transistorized electronics that eliminate the digital thinness of tone I generally hear with older digital recordings?

I realize that this is not a simple question and there are many factors that can contribute to thinness of tone in an audio system, but I was wondering if others here at AA had succeed at eliminating the digital thinness of tone while using transistorized amps? If so, how did you do it?

Roger

[Higgens]

Roger - Delicious Decibels makes a device that is capable of doing what you require. One of the members here (Alberto) is the inventor. You can search for Delicious One on this site to learn more about it.. Gary

[George Prentice]

That is an interesting question. I think I understand your question. My feeling is there is a continuum between really tubey and highly detailed analytical sound. I have found, what for me is the perfect balance in my system. I find it not to be all about the source, but more about the whole chain. I had a Sonic Frontiers tubed CD player, and while it sure was romantic, so much of the detail was gone, it was not satisfying. I find my current digital source, the Moon to be perfect. I think the preamp in this case is key to the balance, if you want really romantic, then you need a more romantic preamp and amp. Over the last 30 years I found the solid state have gotten softer and rounder, and the tube stuff (particularly ARC) have moved to increase detail without stepping over to the tinny side.

My dealer loves Ayre and Magico, and I have to cover my ears it sounds so thin, detailed and... well just terrible... so I think I know what you mean. My dealer considers my system to be outstanding but very romantic... I need asprin to listen to his...

[Steady339]

Originally Posted by gmahon

Roger - Delicious Decibels makes a device that is capable of doing what you require. One of the members here (Alberto) is the inventor. You can search for Delicious One on this site to learn more about it.. Gary

Gary, I looked on the Delicious Decibels site at the Delicious One. It seems that this device's purpose is primary a loudness tone control for boosting tone at lower listening levels.

Do you feel this device can really eliminate digital thinness of timbre of acoustic instruments at higher listening levels using transistorized gear?

[Steady339]

Originally Posted by George Prentice

My dealer loves Ayre and Magico, and I have to cover my ears it sounds so thin, detailed and... well just terrible... so I think I know what you mean. My dealer considers my system to be outstanding but very romantic... I need asprin to listen to his...

I would bet that the Magico speakers tone would sound full and right with a McIntosh C220 tube preamp and MC2301 tube power amps on the 2 ohm tap.

[GaryProtein]

I'm fully solid state, no "digital thinness" here.

[Steady339]

Originally Posted by GaryProtein

I'm fully solid state, no "digital thinness" here.

Gary, What amps are you using in your system?

[audio bill]

Originally Posted by Steady339

Gary, What amps are you using in your system?

You can see his system details in the signature at the bottom of his posts, as well as a couple of very nice pictures of the setups.

[Steady339]

Originally Posted by GaryProtein

I'm fully solid state, no "digital thinness" here.

Gary, after looking over your system and reading some internet posts on the Revox B266 CD player working very well with McIntosh amps, congrats on your solution to "digital thinness" of tone!

P.S. Those Infinity IRS speakers are awesome!

[Alberto]

Originally Posted by gmahon

Roger - Delicious Decibels makes a device that is capable of doing what you require. One of the members here (Alberto) is the inventor. You can search for Delicious One on this site to learn more about it.. Gary

Thank you so much for the "plug" Gary .

Roger,

The Delicious One is a tone control, albeit a very unique one, and you use the word "digital thinness of tone" in your description.

However, because your definition of thinness may differ from mine there's no way to be sure that The Delicious One will address your problem so I can't make a confident recommendation in good conscience.

I could write a book about thin, lean, harsh recordings and the ways I've tried to address them. I've learned quite a bit in the process, and I'd start by saying that tubes are not the magic answers. I've owned/heard tube preamps and amps that were much more lean/analytical than some solid state gear--and vice-versa.

This is an overgeneralization; but based on my experiments and experience, when you encounter a tube component that sounds particularly rich and juicy (the opposite of thin) you will typically see a fair amount of euphonic (pleasant sounding) harmonic distortion that gives the impression of a fatter/richer sound.

I have been experimenting with building a device that allows the user to add a variable amount (and type) of harmonic distortion. It's too early for me to reach any conclusions, but it seems to work; it is, however, a very laborious and complicated way to address the problem and the effect is much more subtle than tone controls. I say this because I've found that by adding/cutting a few decibels here and there (at the right frequencies) via tone controls or equalizers seems to accomplish the desired result–at least for me.

Here's a little helpful cheat-sheet that I've created for myself (so that at least I use the terms consistently as I continue my research on tone). Please keep in mind that this was developed for personal use, there no implication that these are official definition of the terms we so often toss around when talking about tone.



Have you experimented with preamps with tone controls or with equalizers? Do they help with the thinness you describe?

Alberto