AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > The Lounge > Music

Music What really matters most

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 07-22-2022, 10:27 AM
JoeN's Avatar
JoeN JoeN is online now
TechDAS AF 1 & Vitus MP
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Florida
Posts: 879
Default MoFi FrankenVinyl

Reports have surfaced that MoFi “has been” creating FrankenVinyl - that’s is, analogue + digital vinyl.

Thought this is worthy of discussion.

https://youtu.be/a3oRLUcZCFE

https://youtu.be/shg0780YgAE
__________________
Jazz Junkie

Magico M3s; Vitus Masterpiece Components; TechDAS Air Force One; 2 x SME 3012-R; Airtight Opus 1 and MSL Platinum Signature; Taiko Audio Extreme + Switch; Albedo Metamorphosis Signature cables.
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 07-22-2022, 01:22 PM
audioguy3107's Avatar
audioguy3107 audioguy3107 is offline
Go Dawgs
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 5,468
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JoeN View Post
Reports have surfaced that MoFi “has been” creating FrankenVinyl - that’s is, analogue + digital vinyl.

Thought this is worthy of discussion.

https://youtu.be/a3oRLUcZCFE

https://youtu.be/shg0780YgAE
I was going to start a thread on this but you beat me to it. I've read a lot of what's been reported the last couple of days and apparently the mastering of their vinyl from 4X DSD was confirmed. Most of what I've read involves more ire toward their marketing department rather than their engineers. Look, I have a crapton of MOFI vinyl and just about all of it sounds excellent so I'm less concerned with the product than how they are selling it. Selling $125 One Step records with an emphasis on how they are mastered in an all analog chain is really problematic, especially for someone who may be on the fence about buying one of these versus a true analog NM original for $25. I really think that's where the problem lies. It'll be interesting how this affects their sales.....there's a huge thread about this over at the Hoffman forums with a lot of their members vowing to never buy anything from them again, so I guess we'll see.

- Buck
__________________
Library: Speakers: Avalon Acoustics Isis, Subwoofers: (2) REL Acoustics 212SE Amplification: D’agostino Momentum preamplifier, D’agostino S250 stereo amplifier Digital: dCS Rossini CD/SACD transport, dCS Rossini DAC/streamer/master clock. Analog: Brinkmann Taurus table, Lyra Etna Lambda, Audio Research Ref. Phono 3
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 07-22-2022, 02:38 PM
JoeN's Avatar
JoeN JoeN is online now
TechDAS AF 1 & Vitus MP
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Florida
Posts: 879
Default

Agreed. Those of us in vinyl (in audio period) deserve honesty, integrity, and transparency. I think the engineers did their job - and they did it well considering what they had to work with.

However, MoFi’s marketing and execs had the obligation to tell us the truth, the whole truth, and nothing but the truth. However, IMO they didn’t as they knew that vinyl purists would rebel against their label.

IMO, not only were consumers harmed by MoFi’s deception, but they also hurt other companies. How many consumers would have purchased their vinyl from another source had MoFi had told the truth from the beginning. Mind us this has been going on since 2008!

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioguy3107 View Post
I was going to start a thread on this but you beat me to it. I've read a lot of what's been reported the last couple of days and apparently the mastering of their vinyl from 4X DSD was confirmed. Most of what I've read involves more ire toward their marketing department rather than their engineers. Look, I have a crapton of MOFI vinyl and just about all of it sounds excellent so I'm less concerned with the product than how they are selling it. Selling $125 One Step records with an emphasis on how they are mastered in an all analog chain is really problematic, especially for someone who may be on the fence about buying one of these versus a true analog NM original for $25. I really think that's where the problem lies. It'll be interesting how this affects their sales.....there's a huge thread about this over at the Hoffman forums with a lot of their members vowing to never buy anything from them again, so I guess we'll see.

- Buck
__________________
Jazz Junkie

Magico M3s; Vitus Masterpiece Components; TechDAS Air Force One; 2 x SME 3012-R; Airtight Opus 1 and MSL Platinum Signature; Taiko Audio Extreme + Switch; Albedo Metamorphosis Signature cables.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 07-22-2022, 05:10 PM
audioguy3107's Avatar
audioguy3107 audioguy3107 is offline
Go Dawgs
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 5,468
Default

yeah, it's really disappointing, I suppose the ultimate question is what kind of difference good or bad would there have been with their current lineup if they HAD mastered exclusively analog the entire way. I guess that's the million dollar question.......from a sound quality perspective I suppose if the sound is as good as it's capable of being, then perhaps no harm no foul except for a bit of tarnish on the brand.

- Buck
__________________
Library: Speakers: Avalon Acoustics Isis, Subwoofers: (2) REL Acoustics 212SE Amplification: D’agostino Momentum preamplifier, D’agostino S250 stereo amplifier Digital: dCS Rossini CD/SACD transport, dCS Rossini DAC/streamer/master clock. Analog: Brinkmann Taurus table, Lyra Etna Lambda, Audio Research Ref. Phono 3
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 07-22-2022, 05:20 PM
JoeN's Avatar
JoeN JoeN is online now
TechDAS AF 1 & Vitus MP
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Location: Florida
Posts: 879
Default

I’m glad I live in FL where we have many of the older generation all but giving their vinyl away. I’ve even scored some unopened albums from the 60’s and 70’s which cost me $5 each instead of $2 at a yard sale.

I don’t have that many MoFi albums, and don’t plan on having any more. I enjoy dealing with honest dealers, manufactures, and brands. Life’s too short to waste my time with the others …
__________________
Jazz Junkie

Magico M3s; Vitus Masterpiece Components; TechDAS Air Force One; 2 x SME 3012-R; Airtight Opus 1 and MSL Platinum Signature; Taiko Audio Extreme + Switch; Albedo Metamorphosis Signature cables.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 07-23-2022, 09:31 AM
W9TR's Avatar
W9TR W9TR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Neutral Zone
Posts: 4,665
Default

Let’s talk numbers. MoFi is releasing 40,000 copies of Thriller in 1-step. A stamper lasts between 500 and 1000 records, so MoFi has to make between 40 and 80 lacquers to fill the run.

There is NO WAY any master tape owner would let their masters be played that many times.

So MoFi has to make a second generation pressing master. They chose to use 4x DSD instead of analog tape. It’s a wise choice technically, the correct choice imo.

But their lack of transparency and actual outright lies are the most problematic thing here - not the end quality of the presssings, which are all excellent.

This is hard. Many masters have deteriorated and become unusable. Many more have been lost to fire and flood. Many of the masters used in re-issues are already second generation ‘safety’ masters. MoFi does a great job re-issuing this stuff. I just wish they didn’t lie about their ‘Original Master Recordings’, which many (most?) are not. And sometimes they have no way of knowing, either.

Sunlight is the best disinfectant. Time for MoFi to come clean and do what they do best - make great sounding records.
__________________
Main System:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80
Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic
Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation

SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3

OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 07-23-2022, 09:39 AM
audioguy3107's Avatar
audioguy3107 audioguy3107 is offline
Go Dawgs
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Atlanta, Georgia
Posts: 5,468
Default

Tom - Michael Fremer addresses this in his follow up video here:

https://youtu.be/5gkt-VPDXl4
__________________
Library: Speakers: Avalon Acoustics Isis, Subwoofers: (2) REL Acoustics 212SE Amplification: D’agostino Momentum preamplifier, D’agostino S250 stereo amplifier Digital: dCS Rossini CD/SACD transport, dCS Rossini DAC/streamer/master clock. Analog: Brinkmann Taurus table, Lyra Etna Lambda, Audio Research Ref. Phono 3
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 07-23-2022, 09:41 AM
John49's Avatar
John49 John49 is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: London, UK
Posts: 1,730
Default

[emoji106] W9TR
__________________
Avid Acutus SP, NO ARM, Benz Micro LP-S, Whest Audio PS.40RDT SE, PS Audio DSMP+DS DAC, Simaudio Moon 700i, Dali Epicon 6, Simaudio Moon Nēo 430HAD, HiFiMan HE-1000v2, Chord Sarum SA XLR, RCA, USB, Chord Sarum speaker, Nordost Vishnu power, Furutech plugs, PS Audio P10+Chord Sarum SA power, Stillpoints Ultra SS, Ultra Mini and LPI, HiFi Racks rack, Audio Desk Systeme PRO+Keith Monks Omni RCM
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 07-23-2022, 09:53 AM
clpetersen clpetersen is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,064
Default

Tom (W9TR) - great post.
Aside form MoFi's obscurations, a simple question could be:
if the recording engineers in the 1960's had their choice between 4X DSD or analog tape, which would they have chosen as their primary master?
__________________
Main - Roon on Synology/Sonos Port/SoTM Neo endpoints; Chord Qutest, Bryston BP-17 cubed with phono option; EAT C-sharp with Ortofon Bronze MM, Bryston cubed Amplifier; Revel F126Be on custom Atocha stands; interconnects by WireWorld, furniture by Atocha Design 'Phones Audeze LCD-3, Bryston BHA-1; Office: Sonos/Roon; OPPO HA-1, Naim NAP100 and PSB Mini-C. Media Room:, Samsung QLED QN90 series, Sonos, OPPO 205, ATI N-core driving KEF LS-50's with REL subs; furniture by Glassisimo; Kids - U-turn for vinyl, Sonos Play5; Summer Shack - Sonos, vintage Pioneer, Dynaudio Special 40's.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 07-23-2022, 10:31 AM
W9TR's Avatar
W9TR W9TR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Neutral Zone
Posts: 4,665
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by clpetersen View Post
Tom (W9TR) - great post.
Aside form MoFi's obscurations, a simple question could be:
if the recording engineers in the 1960's had their choice between 4X DSD or analog tape, which would they have chosen as their primary master?
My take: 4x DSD. Why?

No modulation noise, 20 dB better snr, orders of magnitude lower distortion, no tape head bumps at low frequencies, no wow and flutter.

As loved as analog tape seems to be, it’s an imperfect medium. Much better than anything else available through at least the 80’s.
__________________
Main System:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80
Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic
Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation

SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3

OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 04:28 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video