Esoteric DSD streamimg update?

[2fastdriving]

There is so little available in DSD, and whatever there IS available in DSD is also available in PCM.

I agree that when you pay that much you should get all the bells and whistles, but I also don't think it's 100% certain that DSD is the "next great thing". I still have redbook CD's that sound better than some of my other SACD's.

[-E-]

Yeah but Marc we're always chasing the pink audio dragon... And DSD is the buzzword of 2014. Just like "3D" was in 2010-11 for TVs (now 4K).

And there are growing ways of getting DSD, the problem is playing it back. Never once have I had anything but sub-par results with a transcode to PCM (versus the native DSD playback), and vice-versa.

But if you do get a chance to do a native PCM versus native DSD versus vinyl - I mean come on... that is the holy grail of testing!

[jdandy]

Ted.......I am unlikely to upgrade my Esoteric K-03 with DSD input capability. I am completely satisfied with its DSD playback from SACD. In my humble opinion, the quality of playback is impacted far greater by the recording techniques, microphones, engineering, and mastering than a particular playback format. I have played SACD's followed by 24Bit/192kHz recordings, then followed by 16Bit/44.1kHz CD playback. I have found many standard PCM 16/44.1 CD recordings to be as engaging and thrilling to hear as SACD's and hi-res downloads. DSD is not a magic elixir in and of itself. Emile hit the nail on the head when he said DSD is the buzzword for 2014. The audio industry churns its customer base the same way many other industries go about convincing customers they have missed the train unless the jump on a particular wagon. DSD support also comes from the recording industry moguls and high-res download startups wishing to tap into the latest cash cow opportunity. Record companies want to reissue or license their music catalogs once again. This doesn't even touch on the shenanigans of creating DSD files from sources other than true DSD recordings and trying to sell them as the real deal.

Nope, I'll keep my K-03 in its pure virgin state and continue to enjoy the amazing performances it provides me daily. If I want to enjoy DSD I'll play my SACD collection.

[-E-]

I think the cherry has been popped on your K03(s) for awhile now, Dan...

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by -E-

I think the cherry has been popped on your K03(s) for awhile now, Dan...

E.......WHAT? Say it isn't so!

[Colekat]

Originally Posted by 2fastdriving

There is so little available in DSD, and whatever there IS available in DSD is also available in PCM.

I agree that when you pay that much you should get all the bells and whistles, but I also don't think it's 100% certain that DSD is the "next great thing". I still have redbook CD's that sound better than some of my other SACD's.

Hey Marc, Absolutely on the money, I have alot of CDs that sound better than the SACD release. And redbook CDs on the right rig can sound pretty damn convincing, it definately comes down to the care in production. But, DSD direct from a DSD master is superb. It would suck to have a $20k rig with no DSD capabilities.

[Colekat]

Originally Posted by Yardbird

We agree that nothings broken...
Well, using your auto analogy, I might say that I would consider a dealer-installed, factory-developed speed mod for my BMW, that was reliable and backed by a factory warrantee, and reasonably priced. Not that my car isn't already quick, which it is, and not that such a mod would ever be reasonably priced, whatever that is...

DSD is the next great thing in digital, and if I'm going to pay to download top-quality audio files onto my server, I would certainly not want to be restricted in my choice of file format by my dac, certainly no dac I've paid so dear a price for! Having said that, I'm very happy with collecting discs at present and don't yet own a server that would make all this possible, so this is all just speculation anyway... Ted.

Ted, you are on the money with DSD, espiecally if it is DSD mastered to disc, the sound is sublime. That is where DSD will excell! But as you noted, all this will soon need to be done by download. Like the banks and newspapers and magazines and etc. The world is going cyber, and media will soon disappear, therefore the need for our DACs to be compatible with DSD. Not only will there be another catalog to build, therefore another purchase, which we will gladly spend for, but it sounds terrific, which is the most important reason. It will suck if Esoteric doesn't provide the upgrade path for DSD direct stream on our current stuff.

[Yardbird]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Ted.......I am unlikely to upgrade my Esoteric K-03 with DSD input capability. I am completely satisfied with its DSD playback from SACD. In my humble opinion, the quality of playback is impacted far greater by the recording techniques, microphones, engineering, and mastering than a particular playback format. I have played SACD's followed by 24Bit/192kHz recordings, then followed by 16Bit/44.1kHz CD playback. I have found many standard PCM 16/44.1 CD recordings to be as engaging and thrilling to hear as SACD's and hi-res downloads. DSD is not a magic elixir in and of itself. Emile hit the nail on the head when he said DSD is the buzzword for 2014. The audio industry churns its customer base the same way many other industries go about convincing customers they have missed the train unless the jump on a particular wagon. DSD support also comes from the recording industry moguls and high-res download startups wishing to tap into the latest cash cow opportunity. Record companies want to reissue or license their music catalogs once again. This doesn't even touch on the shenanigans of creating DSD files from sources other than true DSD recordings and trying to sell them as the real deal.

Nope, I'll keep my K-03 in its pure virgin state and continue to enjoy the amazing performances it provides me daily. If I want to enjoy DSD I'll play my SACD collection.

Dan,

As a observer of how the world turns, I would have to agree with you about how EVERYTHING is commercialized by purveyors of virtually anything - certainly the audio industry. But I wouldn't paint with too broad a brush before we see what happens with DSD - it could be nothing, but it could be something significant and only time will tell. I didn't say I was rushing out to buy an upgrade, but I did say I was interested in knowing if Esoteric, as a high end digital manufacturer, was really working on, or committed to, an upgrade path. If DSD does get to be important, I will want to know that my expensive source component will be adaptable to the new technology. As much as anyone here, I'm sure, I HATE to spend the big bucks on a component that quickly becomes obsolete, which, unfortunately, is always a risk with digital. By offering an upgrade path for their high end digital players and dacs, I believe Esoteric has an opportunity to cement themselves at the top of the high-end brand heirachy, not only by making world-class components, but also by protecting their customers from flash obsolescence!
For the record, I agree that Red Book can sound fantastic, and that the recording quality is the most important factor, more so than the format. Has anyone here ever heard the Spectral 4000 SL Reference player? All it does is play Red Book discs, but man does it play Red Book!! The chief designer, Dr. Keith Johnson, decided to ignore the format-of-the-day and just concentrate on 44.1, for the very reason you mentioned, Dan - its the recording, stupid!!
For a perfect non-truncated word length, he has supported HDCD, at 44.8, (isn't it?) But since that format has died, he now issues his Reference Series Recordings as hybrid SACD's. As I said before, I'm happy spinning my discs for now, I just want to know that the upgrade path will be there if I decide I want it later. Lets face it, I'm happy with my K-01/G-01 and, if it comes to it, I'd rather fight than switch! Ted.

[Yardbird]

Originally Posted by Colekat

Ted, you are on the money with DSD, espiecally if it is DSD mastered to disc, the sound is sublime. That is where DSD will excell! But as you noted, all this will soon need to be done by download. Like the banks and newspapers and magazines and etc. The world is going cyber, and media will soon disappear, therefore the need for our DACs to be compatible with DSD. Not only will there be another catalog to build, therefore another purchase, which we will gladly spend for, but it sounds terrific, which is the most important reason. It will suck if Esoteric doesn't provide the upgrade path for DSD direct stream on our current stuff.

Tom, I find it hard to believe that discs will go away anytime soon. For one thing, its gotten to be too inexpensive to make them, and for another, there are too many people who still want to buy. As long as its profitable, discs will be made! A good DSD recording does sound simply fantastic. Lets hope that Esoteric finds a way to make the upgrade and make it profitable, and then it will be a win/win, which is the only way we'll ever see it! Ted.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by Yardbird

Dan,

As a observer of how the world turns, I would have to agree with you about how EVERYTHING is commercialized by purveyors of virtually anything - certainly the audio industry. But I wouldn't paint with too broad a brush before we see what happens with DSD - it could be nothing, but it could be something significant and only time will tell. I didn't say I was rushing out to buy an upgrade, but I did say I was interested in knowing if Esoteric, as a high end digital manufacturer, was really working on, or committed to, an upgrade path. If DSD does get to be important, I will want to know that my expensive source component will be adaptable to the new technology. As much as anyone here, I'm sure, I HATE to spend the big bucks on a component that quickly becomes obsolete, which, unfortunately, is always a risk with digital. By offering an upgrade path for their high end digital players and dacs, I believe Esoteric has an opportunity to cement themselves at the top of the high-end brand heirachy, not only by making world-class components, but also by protecting their customers from flash obsolescence!
For the record, I agree that Red Book can sound fantastic, and that the recording quality is the most important factor, more so than the format. Has anyone here ever heard the Spectral 4000 SL Reference player? All it does is play Red Book discs, but man does it play Red Book!! The chief designer, Dr. Keith Johnson, decided to ignore the format-of-the-day and just concentrate on 44.1, for the very reason you mentioned, Dan - its the recording, stupid!!
For a perfect non-truncated word length, he has supported HDCD, at 44.8, (isn't it?) But since that format has died, he now issues his Reference Series Recordings as hybrid SACD's. As I said before, I'm happy spinning my discs for now, I just want to know that the upgrade path will be there if I decide I want it later. Lets face it, I'm happy with my K-01/G-01 and, if it comes to it, I'd rather fight than switch! Ted.

Ted.......

I agree with your summation. I fully understand your desire to keep premium components abreast of current technology, especially at your investment level. Despite that point, though, I am not overly enthused about DSD downloads. I would venture a guess that nearly anything of substantial musical value available as a DSD download will also be available on SACD. I will simply purchase the discs I find interesting and have full access to the DSD files without the required factory upgrade.