AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > The Lounge > General Audio Discussion

General Audio Discussion All other Audio Q & A

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-28-2021, 04:03 PM
70sMac's Avatar
70sMac 70sMac is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: The Berkshires
Posts: 557
Default Pros and cons of turntables?

It's been a while since I visited the lounge. This time I'm looking for some thoughts on "going back" to LPs. I often find LP versions of the music I prefer that are relatively cheap when compared to the CD variations.

In addition to the pro and cons of turntables, I'd appreciate some thoughts on which brands/models give one good bang for the buck.

Thank you kindly for your time ~ Bill
__________________
Bill in the Hills

OUR VINTAGE MAC: MAC4100, MAC4200 | AMPS: MC452, MC300 | MAC PRE/PROS: MX151, MX130, MX121 | B&W SPEAKERS: (2) N802s, (2) N805s, (1) HTM3S | NEWER EQUIPMENT: Oppo 203 & 105D, Sony X800M2, Denon CDR-W1500 | VIDEO DISPLAY: 65" LG OLED | IMPORTANT NOTE: Zero High-speed internet connections
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-28-2021, 09:17 PM
Antonmb's Avatar
Antonmb Antonmb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northwest Washington (Mt Baker foothills)
Posts: 9,121
Default Pros and cons of turntables?

If it’s just to be able to pick up a few deals vs the cost of CDs, then I’d say it’s not worth it. If the cheaper vinyl is new, then the quality probably won’t be great - good new pressings aren’t usually cheap. If you’re shopping used, some real gems are out there, but the good used stuff isn’t usually cheap either, the waters can be treacherous, and you’ll want a record cleaning machine to get the most out of used purchases. In either case, a streaming service subscription or buying used CDs on eBay might be better, cheaper options.

If, on the other hand, you already have a preexisting vinyl collection you haven’t played in a while, or if you want to be serious about playing vinyl because you enjoy the sound and like to collect great vinyl, then of course it’s worth it. There are some very nice turntables to be had for $3-5k from brands like Rega, Pro-Ject, VPI, and several others. What’s your budget?
__________________
Tony
D'Agostino Momentum S250 MxV & HD pre; Linn Klimax Organik DSM, SonicTransporter, EtherRegen; Acoustic Signature Typhoon Neo, Koetsu RSP, Boulder 1108; Sf Il Cremonese; Shunyata Everest, Altaira, Sigma & Alpha v2

Last edited by Antonmb; 04-28-2021 at 09:20 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-28-2021, 09:27 PM
crwilli's Avatar
crwilli crwilli is online now
Racing Hoopties

 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Bluffton SC
Posts: 9,768
Default

Solid advice
__________________
Main Equipment: Kharma Elegance dB11-S, JL Audio F113v2 X 2, Block Audio Line & Mono SE Amplification, Bricasti M21 DAC, Antipodes Kala K-50 Server
Power: Shunyata Everest 8000, Sigma XC v2, Sigma NR v2, Block Audio PCs, Defender, ADDPowr Wizard
Grounding: Shunyata Altaira CGS - 4 X Alpha CGS cables,
Network : Supra Cat 8+, Twin (Nenon) Modified Buffalo GS2016 Switches, Keces P3 LPSU,
Cables: Wireworld Platinum 8 USB, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse 8 Speaker cables, 6M & 1M Tubulus Concentus ICs,
Other: Multiple GIK products, Stillpoint Apertures, Stillpoint Minis and Ultra SS, Three 20 Amp lines, Furutech GTX - Gold outlets, Adona Rack
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-29-2021, 02:11 AM
bart's Avatar
bart bart is offline
Life is beautiful
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 19,867
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
Solid advice

+1, from another digital only audiophile.
__________________
Stereo: Hegel H590, Grimm Audio MU1, Mola Mola Tambaqui, Burmester 948 - V3 & V6 racks, Vivid Audio G2 Giyas, REL Carbon Special (pair), Silent Angel Bonn N8 Ethernet Switch & Forester F1, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse IC and SE SC, Furutech Digiflux
AV: Hegel C-53, Marantz AV8802A, Oppo BDP-203EU, Pioneer Kuro 60", Vivid Audio C1 & V1w's, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse, SE & E
Second system (veranda): Halgorythme preamp and monoblocks, Burmester 061, Avalon Avatar, Sharkwire & Wireworld cables
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-29-2021, 02:15 AM
George Prentice's Avatar
George Prentice George Prentice is offline
George
 
Join Date: Jan 2014
Location: Vancouver, Wa
Posts: 362
Default

I have maintained my vinyl collection since I bought my first LP in 1967. I have upgraded the analog end with the rest of my system, the digital end getting more and more play during the ‘90s. Over the last ten years I have had competing digital and analog ends, I’d upgrade one... then the other would sound better, back and forth. Although less expensive by about $10K my current analog end is a bit better than my digital end... more detailed and a bigger sound stage... but both are equally satisfying to listen to... equally. I really enjoy vinyl and picking up used recorded or new audiophile vinyl once in a while. I listen to vinyl about 15% of the time. It is an enjoyable pursuit.
.

The pros is dollar for dollar generally better sound. A good system virtually eliminates surface noise and maximizes soundstage and musicality. This is still the way to maximum fidelity. Great fun finding special recordings that have never been released digitally. Used records cleaned with a record cleaner can usually sound perfect.

Cons: Less convenient than digital (my streamer is equal or better than all my CDs, but also less convenient than CD). probably need a cleaning machine to clean incoming disks and used finds. Turn over disk every 20 minutes. Takes up space.


It is a question of how much can you afford. If possible I would recommend something like a Linn LP12 Majik (or similarly priced VPI)... you get the table, arm, and cartridge, and it is highly upgradable if you get the urge. Then you would need a good Phonostage... i would recommend something in the $3.5k range to match the capability of the LP12. You seem to like McIntosh... so maybe their Phonostage.


There are lots of approaches that are less expensive... Rega... but if you want solid performance, something like above... or there are a number of solid brands.
__________________
George
Main: Aurender W20SE music streamer, ARC REF 9SE DAC / CD, Linn LP 12, Koetsu Rosewood SignCartrige, ARC REF 3 Phono Stage, ARC REF 6SE Preamp, ARC 160s amp, Sonus Faber Amati Traditional Speakers,Transparent Ultra IC & SC Library:Aurender N100, Ayre QB9 2020 DAC, Woo WA5-LE amp upgraded tubes, Focal Utopia HP, Sennheiser 800s HP, LCD HP.

Last edited by George Prentice; 04-29-2021 at 02:31 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-29-2021, 07:35 AM
W9TR's Avatar
W9TR W9TR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Neutral Zone
Posts: 4,665
Default

I too have vinyl I bought as a teenager. I never stopped playing records after CD’s came on the scene.

I’m not sure I’d get into vinyl now if I didn’t already have a large vinyl collection.
__________________
Main System:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80
Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic
Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation

SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3

OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-29-2021, 08:05 AM
clpetersen clpetersen is offline
Senior Member

 
Join Date: May 2012
Location: Boston
Posts: 1,064
Default

I'll post a slightly different viewpoint.

I started with CD's, not vinyl, as I bought my first system just after college. We have a reasonably extensive digital collection but have not had a CD player in 10 years now.

And, in 2020, in the midst of COVID, bought a turntable set-up. EAT C-major, Ortofon Black MM, using on-board Bryston phono stage - so a decent but by no means exorbitant system.

Why? it is enjoyable to play, to collect, and the sound quality can be astonishingly good, even in a modest set-up. So, we will curate a smallish, carefully selected vinyl collection. An evening treat, not a mainstay. Well worth it.
__________________
Main - Roon on Synology/Sonos Port/SoTM Neo endpoints; Chord Qutest, Bryston BP-17 cubed with phono option; EAT C-sharp with Ortofon Bronze MM, Bryston cubed Amplifier; Revel F126Be on custom Atocha stands; interconnects by WireWorld, furniture by Atocha Design 'Phones Audeze LCD-3, Bryston BHA-1; Office: Sonos/Roon; OPPO HA-1, Naim NAP100 and PSB Mini-C. Media Room:, Samsung QLED QN90 series, Sonos, OPPO 205, ATI N-core driving KEF LS-50's with REL subs; furniture by Glassisimo; Kids - U-turn for vinyl, Sonos Play5; Summer Shack - Sonos, vintage Pioneer, Dynaudio Special 40's.

Last edited by clpetersen; 04-29-2021 at 08:45 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-29-2021, 08:14 AM
Formerly YB-2's Avatar
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is offline
Retired

 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ Shore
Posts: 8,404
Default

Pro's & con's are often the same, but different for different people.

With a vinyl rig you are 'involved' with what is going on at the start & finish of the music. That is, for the best sound you must have a clean LP & stylus. The cartridge & TA must be set/aligned correctly. But, the alignment is only needed when changing cartridges. Vinyl also takes a small bit of effort at the start of play with an anti-static brush/cleaner and stylus brush to insure all is clean. All of this is a con for some folks, but for most people who are "into vinyl" it is like putting on a seat-belt when you get in your car. Something you do and you pretty much do not even notice......... Not a big deal and many enjoy same.

For me, the biggest vinyl con is cleaning records. I have a high-end RCM (record cleaning machine), of which there are any number, but the biggest drawback is that all make noise so one cannot enjoy listening (in detail, anyway) while cleaning records. The upside, given reasonable care, it is a 'once & done' deal and LPs stay clean if handled & stored correctly.

The biggest pro for me is how much better a well set-up vinyl rig sounds compared to the same digital rig. To my ears, vinyl sounds 'real', while even the best digital rig always ends up sounding 'electronic'. I can & do listen to vinyl for hours, but can never get past about two CDs before they start to sound grating.

Another con for me is all the effort needed with other than a standard CDP where one drops in the CD and hits play. Various filters, software that must be futz'd with, downloads, looking for the streaming source, getting things to work together/interfacing, etc., etc. Many talk about the 'hassle' of cleaning LPs and then starting & stopping same. That is nothing compared to the hours one often pours into setting up and getting various bits of software driven hardware to work well together. Something I have never enjoyed and like even less these days.

A pro for digital/streaming is space. My ~1000 LPs take up about twice the space as my ~1000 CDs. With streaming the space needed for digital is much less. However, with a dedicated listening area I do not find the storage of either physical media to be a problem. And, for me, handling of same is not a problem. Plus, it would (god forbid) take a fire to do serious harm my physical media while one dead drive can wipe out thousands of files (of course, I know you have everything backed-up so that could never happen ).

For me, the cons/hassles of digital far surpass those of vinyl in getting everything to work together. Plus, with digital there is always the "next greatest thing of all time". CD, SACD, MQA, better DACs, clocks, whatever. With vinyl you may want a 'better' TT or TA or cartridge or phono-preamp, but vinyl is pretty much "set & forget" after a proper set-up and alignment.

Some state they cannot deal with the "noise" from vinyl. A properly cleaned LP & stylus are very quiet. Plus, I've yet to attend a live music event where it was truly quiet (we breath, sneeze, move, rustle papers, etc.) , so I don't expect perfectly quiet backgrounds with my recorded music. Perhaps that lack of background noise is the 'electronic' sound of digital I mentioned above.

Another pro for me with vinyl is all the excellent cartridges that are available. Both MC & MM. Excellent sound can be gotten for as little as $300 and it only gets better from there. With $10K+ cartridges available, the sky is the limit. For me, $300, $800 & $2K are pretty much the big steps in cartridge performance.

To the specifics of what vinyl rig I would suggest......... depends on your budget. I'm a DD (direct drive) TT fan, so if wishing to stay under $6K I would go with the excellent Technics SL-1200G which includes a very decent tonearm. Add in something like an Ortofon Quintet Black or Sumiko Blackbird and a Musical Surroundings Nova III. If your budget can stand the hit, the VPI HW-40 or AMG direct-drive TT/TA rigs are sublime. Then step up to something like the Ortofon Winfeld or Lyra Kleos and Parasound JC3+ phono-preamp. In either case, don't skimp on phono IC's.

Obviously, with all this, YMMV. Whatever you go with, enjoy the music.
__________________
Glenn...
Clearaudio SM Pro Focal Bathys JLA 10" Dominion Kuzma Stabi S w/MC & MM Magnepan 1,7i McIntosh MA8950 Oppo 203 Roon Nucleus Rose Hifi RS150B Shunyata Gemini-4 Sony ST-A6B, TA-F6B & PS-X75 Sorane SA1.2 & TA-1L Stillpoints LP1v2 WW Pt, Au & Ag

Last edited by Formerly YB-2; 04-29-2021 at 08:17 AM.
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-29-2021, 10:44 AM
cleeds cleeds is offline
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by W9TR View Post
I too have vinyl I bought as a teenager. I never stopped playing records after CD’s came on the scene. I’m not sure I’d get into vinyl now if I didn’t already have a large vinyl collection.
Same here. I have no plans to give up on LPs, but only because I've been into them for so long. I'm pretty sure I wouldn't bother with LP if I were starting from scratch today.

But I'm old school. I still don't think of LPs as "vinyls" any more than I think of CDs as "polycarbonates."
__________________
Primary sources: VPI TNT III/SDS turntable, SME-V arm; Bryston BDP-3 digital player; Bryston BDA-3 DAC; McIntosh MVP-881 disc player; McIntosh MR-80 tuner. Preamplifier Audio Research Ref 5SE; Audio Research Ref Phono 2SE; Moon 430 HA. Amplifiers Conrad Johnson Premier 1B; Audio Research D-300; Bryston 4B. Speakers Infinity IRS Beta. Recorders Tandberg TD20A; Crown SX-822; Nakamichi 670ZX; Alesis Masterlink ML-9600. Power Tice Power Block/Titan (x2); McIntosh MPC1500; API Ultra II-20; multiple 20A derated dedicated lines.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-29-2021, 12:42 PM
Antonmb's Avatar
Antonmb Antonmb is online now
Senior Member
 
Join Date: May 2011
Location: Northwest Washington (Mt Baker foothills)
Posts: 9,121
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by cleeds View Post


I still don't think of LPs as "vinyls" any more than I think of CDs as "polycarbonates."
[emoji106][emoji106][emoji106][emoji106]
And the plural of vinyl is vinyl.
__________________
Tony
D'Agostino Momentum S250 MxV & HD pre; Linn Klimax Organik DSM, SonicTransporter, EtherRegen; Acoustic Signature Typhoon Neo, Koetsu RSP, Boulder 1108; Sf Il Cremonese; Shunyata Everest, Altaira, Sigma & Alpha v2
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 03:30 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video