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Power Conditioners Voltage regulation to AC Regeneration

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  #21  
Old 05-06-2015, 06:16 PM
Golucid Golucid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by djwhog View Post
I run a power regen unit 2 of them, work great, should get a 3rd one
Hey Dave...would you post a photo of your power conditioning/generating setup.?
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  #22  
Old 05-06-2015, 10:43 PM
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MtnHam MtnHam is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ChrisVFR14 View Post
I'm slowly trying to put my system together and have arrived at the power stage. Any thought on the use of a regenerator vs a PC would be very helpful. Benefits of one over the other would also be great. Thanks everyone in advance
Regeneration vs. conditioning has a lot to do with the power you have coming in from your utility. Mine is very good, because I live in a remote area. far from industry and neighbors. I share my utility transformer with no one. My nearest neighbor is a mile away. Thus the major noise factor is from within my own home, and within the system; that is no small issue. Regeneration will isolate my system from incoming noise on the AC line, but that is not ideal for amplifiers which can put a high current demand on the conditioner/regenerator. I have 3 dedicated circuits, 1 for the preamp and source gear.The other two are for the mono blocks, which are plugged in directly, and 3 Typhons, one for each circuit. Additionally, a Triton for power distribution to everything but the amps. Sigma Digital PCs to the digital gear to prevent back feeding digital hash to the preamp.

Consequently, the system is extremely quiet. The noise floor is exceptionally low. The music flows from a dead quiet stage, and nome of the subtle telltale signs of dirty power. I own 2 regenerators, but have chosen not to use them here. If I had crappy incoming AC, or voltage that widely varied, I might do otherwise, but would never power my amps with a regenerator.

IMO, Shunyata's passive approach is superior in my situation. YMMV.

Last edited by MtnHam; 05-06-2015 at 10:48 PM.
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  #23  
Old 05-06-2015, 11:36 PM
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Real similar to mtmham for me, 3 dedicated circuits, all 10/3 overkill wiring, using audio grade outlets from Ivan. Also in the country few neighbors, and I had to spring for and am the only house on my own transformer too. I have regen units two ppps. Dave I will need to did up some pics for ya.


I may be as we'll off if I had the hydras? My main concern is lighting and not just the surges at times but noise in the line.

But I agree if you have very clean pretty stable power then maybe a conditioner is a better approach.

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  #24  
Old 05-06-2015, 11:50 PM
BlueFox BlueFox is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MtnHam View Post
IMO, Shunyata's passive approach is superior in my situation. YMMV.

Agreed. Plus regenerators are just one more active component to break. Or even worse, not break, but degrade. So you think it is working but it is making noise.

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  #25  
Old 05-09-2015, 05:45 AM
Orb Orb is offline
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The benefit of mains regeneration over conditioners is that they also reduce harmonic distortion of the mains waveform.
That said still not sure which way I will go myself in near future; maybe Isotek Evo3 Titan conditioner (probably looking more at conditioners myself and accept it cannot do some aspects of regenerators), or PS Audio P10 mains regenerator (but difficult not to stress/push near or pass limits if wanting to connect integrated or pwr amps).

Great PS Audio p10 review by Keith Howard showing benefit of mains regeneration using bespoke measurement setup, and with some good explanations.
http://www.signaturesystems.co.uk/HF...0%20review.pdf
Notice though that he is very careful what equipment he uses with the P10, so my concern is just how much it can really handle (this is the challenge with mains regeneration and size-active supply constraints, applies in some ways to conditioners but IMO to a lesser degree in comparison).

Enjoy the read.
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Orb

Last edited by Orb; 05-09-2015 at 06:00 AM.
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  #26  
Old 05-09-2015, 11:11 AM
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This is a review of the PS Audio Power Plant Premier AC regeneration power conditioner that I wrote in April 2009. I thought it might prove interesting to those who haven't read it. I think many of us think our audio components, particularly amplifiers, draw more current at any given volume level than they actually do. We also tend to think of the load our amplifiers present is constant but it is not. The load rises and falls in relation to the musical wave forms and the demad those wave forms put on the amplifier's output stages. I presently have two MC601 power amplifiers fed by one PPP. A C2300 and four source components are fed by the second PPP in my living room system. Both PPP's have been in service for six years without any issues.


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Originally Posted by jdandy View Post


The new PS Audio Power Plant Premier is not your typical filtering, choking, transforming, clamping, or conditioning type power altering device. It is an alternating current regenerator. What it does is rebuild the AC by first converting it to DC and then back again to perfect, clean AC, providing closely regulated voltage, and a low distortion 60 cycle sine wave at the five AC duplex receptacles on the rear of the unit. I won't go into a long explanation of how the PS Audio Power Plant Premier is engineered to perform its tasks.

I received my Power Plant Premier Tuesday, and immediately set it up to begin a burn-in period on its internal amplifier. It has remained energized 24/7 for four days. Speaking of being energized, the PPP never really turns off, even though you press the on/off button, or use the remote control, or trigger it with one of your systems power port triggers. The display goes out, and any receptacles you have set up to de-energize will drop out, but the internal circuitry and AC regeneration amplifier remains energized. I chose to leave all the PPP receptacles hot, not switched or delayed turn on because all of the McIntosh components are triggered from the C1000P preamplifier. Since the PPP remains energized, with only the display turning off, I control its on/off function (display) using the power port output from my MR85 tuner. That way, when I press the power off button on the McIntosh remote, everything turns off simultaneously.

The first test I performed was to see how much current the PPP draws since its amplifier is always on, even when it is theoretically turned off (display turned off). Using my Kill-A-Watt P3 meter plugged into the dedicated wall outlet with the PPP plugged into it, it showed 125 volts AC at the wall outlet, and the PPP drawing 1.46 amps, or a total of 182.5 watts with no loads connected to it. That's almost like having two 100 watt light bulbs on in your home 24/7, so expect a minor increase in your power bill with the Power Plant Premier plugged in.

As you can see from the included photos, the PPP reduced my house voltage input from 125 volts AC to a steady 120 volts AC. The photos also show that the total harmonic distortion (THD) on my house power at the moment of the photo was 1.7%, which the PPP cleaned up to a low .4% at the receptacle outputs on the back.

My sound system is cabled as follows. I use the Wireworld Silver Electra 2 meter power cords to power the Power Plant Premier, the C1000C/P, the MCD500 and the MS750. The black power cord you see plugged into the rear of the PPP is the power cord for the APC 750 UPS where the MS750, MR85, and Sonos ZP90 are plugged in. My two MC501 amplifiers are not plugged into the PPP, but remain plugged into a separate dedicated circuit wall outlet using Wireworld Silver Electra power cords. The McIntosh XLS112, a 400 watt powered sub, is energized using a separate circuit with a Wireworld Silver Electra power cord. For interconnects, I am using Wireworld Silver Eclipse 6.0 balanced interconnects between the preamp and amps, and between the MCD500 and the preamp. I am using the Wireworld Silver Starlight coaxial cable from the MS750 to the MCD500, and Wireworld SuperNova glass fiber optic cable from the Sonos ZP90 to the MCD500. Both PMC EB1i speakers are wired with Kimber 8TC speaker cable. That is how the system is assembled.

OK, lets get down to the business of sound. I am very familiar with the sound of my system, but even still I listened to the system without the Power Plant Premier for two hours this morning. The CD's I selected for the audition included; A Windham Hill Collection - Sounds Of Wood & Steel 2, Erin Boheme - What Is Love, Gerry Mulligan Quartet - Dragonfly, Liz Story with Joel Di Bartolo, and The Ray Brown Trio - Soular Energy. After enjoying the music with my morning coffee, I plugged the various components into the receptacles on the rear of the Power Plant Premier as seen in the included photo. I decided it was pointless to just play the C1000P, or the MCD500 using the PPP since that isn't how I plan to use it, so it was everything into the PPP for the big show.

For those familiar with my previous reviews of audio equipment, you know I like to listen to piano. This instrument alone is so revealing of a system's ability to sound natural across the audio spectrum, and will quickly let you hear shortcomings in timbre, sustain, attacks, decays, and dynamics, as well as noise floors. Liz Story with Joel Di Bartolo is a wonderful CD, and perfect for this audition. From the first notes played on the piano keys, and the first strokes on acoustic bass strings I knew something good was going on with my system. The piano notes lingered so delicately in the air, coupled with the thick woody richness of Joel's acoustic stand up bass. It was hypnotic. I cannot say that everything was so much better that I could clearly identify each difference. It was more like I was touched in a deeper emotional way by the music. The sounds were closer to real than I ever heard from my system before. Every single vibration had life.

I moved to the Ray Brown Trio - Soular Energy. On this CD Gene Harris plays piano, Gerryck King is on drums, and of course Ray is on acoustic bass. My favorite track is "Cry Me A River". The occasional slap strokes that Ray uses create quick dynamic attacks that just as quickly diminish into mellow, warm bass tones. These notes were so real it seemed as though Ray was in front of me with his instrument. Gene Harris piano playing goes from soft and gentle to fast ivory key stroke attacks that swing dynamics quickly. I have listened to this CD at least 20 times, and have occasionally found certain hammered piano notes to approach the edge of sharpness. I heard none of that today. The keys still got hammered at the appropriate times, but no sense of a bite coming from the speakers. Just amazing. I wound up listening to this entire CD. I just couldn't press the stop button.

On Gerry Mulligan Quartet - Dragonfly CD I experienced what seemed like the biggest difference I could put my finger on. The second track, "Brother's Blues" is one of my favorites from all of his CD's in my collection. Gerry's baritone saxophone, Dave Grusin's piano, John Scofield's guitar, Warren Vache's cornet, Ryan Kisor's vibraphone, and the late Grover Washington's soprano saxophone work is nothing short of epic. This recording was done live, recorded in 20-bit digital by Telarc. It truly shows off a sound system, and just begs for more volume. This entire performance wasn't in my speakers, the preamp or the amps, it was in my room. What I noticed different with the PPP in place was a level of sheen on each instrument that allowed it to step through the curtain of recorded sound to the realm of a live music performance. This recording has always thrilled me, but listening to it with the Power Plant Premier providing ultra clean power pushed the performance to a new height. I could almost smell the smoke in the jazz club, and feel the body heat. The PPP allows music to reach a deeper place in your brain where the barrier between reality and recording gets melted.

Erin Boheme is a new artist to me. I only have one of her CDs, but I like her voice. Her ability to interpret, and make lyrics believable is extraordinary. On her CD, What Love Is, she sings a song, "One Night With Frank". I noticed that her voice seemed to have a lighter sense of air as she sang, and the instruments each held a clear and solid space without any sense of crowding. This feeling came more from an emotional level, in that the music just seemed to be more involving to me. I found myself listening deeply into all the sounds, sometimes individually to each instrument, sometimes focusing on the whole event, but always thoroughly absorbed in the performance. I was listening to music, not a sound system. This is what I have always wanted to achieve.

Finally, I moved to the very well recorded Windham Hill Collection - Sounds Of Wood & Steel 2, where all the guitars played on the CD are Taylor guitars. My favorite track on this CD is "Opportunity" where T.J. Baden plays a beautiful Taylor Grand Auditorium guitar in open D tuning. Since I own and play two very fine Taylor guitars, I am completely familiar with the live sound of these instruments. This song sounded so real in the room it was absolutely thrilling. The PPP seemed to allow the guitar more air to resonate and breathe in.

The Power Plant Premier never made a sound while doing its job. It never got hot. It was essentially invisible with the exception of what it did for the music. I believe the Power Plant Premier, with its stable 120 volt AC and accurate sine wave output, coupled with the reduction of line voltage harmonic distortion, assists each audio component to perform its very best. Everything I listened to this afternoon struck me deeper emotionally than listening just this morning to the same music without the Power Plant Premier in the system. My ears and brain knew something was better, and my soul felt it, too. Music was more real, more involving, more satisfying to hear and experience. The differences with the PPP are delicate, and refined. Its presence in my system allowed the music to penetrate deeply into my mind in a way that made each song more memorable, more thoroughly enjoyed. The PS Audio Power Plant Premier is now a permanent part of my sound system, and is here to stay.

Correction To Review: I was in error with respect to the idle amperage/watts of the PS Audio Power Plant Premier. I had mistakenly assumed that because everything plugged into the PPP was turned off that I had no connected load. This was an error. My measurement of 1.46 amps/182.5 watts at idle was with the following loads connected : C1000C/P, MCD500, MS750, MR85, ZP90. The Sonos ZP90 was energized, but the remaining components were not turned on. Of course, they all draw some power for there remote control functions, and the MS750 motherboard and hard drive remain energized even when turned off. Those original measurement numbers are accurate, as remeasured today with the components connected as stated above.

When measuring the Power Plant Premier current draw with nothing plugged into it, and all IsoZone switches set to Off the current draw was .73 amps/91.25 watts. The wattage calculation was figured using 125 volts, which is what is at the wall receptacle. The PPP AC regeneration amplifier remained energized. Without anything plugged into the PPP, I switched the three IsoZone switches from Off to the Always On position and discovered the current draw went from .73 amps/91.25 watts to .94 amps/117.5 watts. This is no doubt due to the current consumed by the relay coils that control the functions of the three IsoZones. This means that the maximum current consumed by the PS Audio Power Plant Premier at idle will be .94 amps. This is considerably better than my original numbers, and will be even less if one or more of the IsoZone recepticle group switches are set to Off.


















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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
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Last edited by jdandy; 05-09-2015 at 11:42 AM.
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  #27  
Old 05-09-2015, 11:38 AM
Golucid Golucid is offline
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Dan...

Is there such a thing as a whole house power regenerator? I am in the midst of building and still have options, time limited though, to make some changes. It seems having something on this level for the entire house could be a value or over-kill?

Last edited by Golucid; 05-09-2015 at 11:54 AM.
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  #28  
Old 05-09-2015, 11:48 AM
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David.......Whole house AC regeneration would be a huge endeavor and would require custom designed equipment that would be extremely expensive. I don't see any advantages to doing such a thing outside of powering audio and video equipment. There are companies that manufacture Isolation Panels that are often installed to power recording studios, home audio and video setups, and hospital surgery rooms. These panels are not the same as AC regeneration but provide power conditioning to multiple dedicated outlets without the need to have separate power conditioners installed at each device.
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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A
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  #29  
Old 05-09-2015, 12:16 PM
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I agree with Dan. I have no issues powering my Mcintosh amplifiers with PS Audio regenerators. In my system, I never push my amps hard. I average 0.5 to 5 watts with occasionally 50 watt laying down the wood sessions. The current needed for my MC501s is actually well within the limits of my regenerators. I started out with PPP, first one then added a second PPP. Currently, I own a pair of P10s. The P10 is a fantastic product. Dedicated 20 amp lines with 10g wiring. Transparent RPL power cords. I have one monoblock amp on each P10 to further improve the current available. The preamp and sources are split amongst the 2 P10s. I have no real need to do anything else to my power delivery. System sounds wonderful and black as spades background. The P10 is the real deal, IMO. I use low distortion, multi wave 6 settings. As others have noted, there are many avenues to achieve excellent power delivery. Pick whichever one floats your boat, budget, or situation. It's all good. Providing a solid power delivery foundation, however you do it, is an absolute key element in building a hi-fidelity system.
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Last edited by j3brow; 05-09-2015 at 12:19 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-09-2015, 12:20 PM
Golucid Golucid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by j3brow View Post
I agree with Dan. I have no issues powering my Mcintosh amplifiers with PS Audio regenerators. In my system, I never push my amps hard. I average 0.5 to 5 watts with occasionally 50 watt laying down the wood sessions. The current needed for my MC501s is actually well within the limits of my regenerators. I started out with PPP, first one then added a second PPP. Currently, I own a pair of P10s. The P10 is a fantastic product. Dedicated 20 amp lines with 10g wiring. Transparent RPL power cords. I have one monoblock amp on each P10 to further improve the current available. The preamp and sources are split amongst the 2 P10s. I have no real need to do anything else to my power delivery. System sounds wonderful and black as spades background. The P10 is the real deal, IMO. I use low distortion, multi wave 6 settings. As others have noted, there are many avenues to achieve excellent power delivery. Pick whichever one floats your boat, budget, or situation. It's all good. Providing a solid power delivery foundation, however you do it, is an absolute key element in building a hi-fidelity system.
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