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#11
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But you had seemed to imply (in your earlier post) that good post-detection filtering (or a better stereo decoder?) could compensate for a wide IF pass-band. That was the reason for my question about (2). Did I misunderstand, or can you get rid of the self-noise by post-detection filtering without increasing distortion by using a narrow IF? The answer to this question would seem important for choosing a tuner to get great analog sound on a station with HD channels... -- Clark2 Last edited by Clark2; 03-07-2019 at 02:54 PM. Reason: clarification |
#12
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Clark,
Narrow IF bandwidth and good post detection filtering both work to eliminate HD self noise. Tuner implementations of wide and narrow IF’s and post detection filtering vary widely so it’s hard for me to make a generalization. I think the only way to see if a tuner works for you is to try it out in your system. The proof is in the listening. Tom
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Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v |
#13
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+1. This is often true in audio, but especially so when evaluating a tuner. Reception conditions vary greatly and it's difficult to predict results with any accuracy.
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#14
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+2. Can do all reading of theory and analysis you want, but plugging in a proper tuner & antenna provides the correct answer.
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Glenn... Canton Reference 9 Clearaudio SM Pro Focal Bathys JLA 10" Dominion Kuzma Stabi S w/MC & MM Magnepan 1,7i McIntosh MA8950 & MR88 Oppo 203 Roon Nucleus Rose Hifi RS150B Shunyata Gemini-4 Sony ST-A6B, TA-F6B, ST-J75 & PS-X75 Sorane SA1.2 & TA-1L Stillpoints LP1v2 WW Pt, Au & Ag |
#15
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(Interestingly, the HD Radio group on Yahoo! appears to be dead -- the last post before mine is dated Feb. 20, 2014, and the moderator does not respond to email!) I hear you telling me that HD does not sound as good as analog FM, but I don't hear any details about how it falls short. I know from my car-radio listening that it's much better than Sirius/XM. I presume that it's adequate in some situations (and it is certainly quiet). I suppose I'll have to find out for myself... -- Clark2 |
#16
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^^^^I've had several very good tuners over the years and still have a couple of good vintage Mac tuners. My thoughts are no matter how good those tuners sound they cannot make up for the lack of programming, constant commercials or compression that is today's fm. Putting the same effort into a streaming set up will yield much better results and that's probably the reason Yahoo HD Radio group is no longer around
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#17
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I'd say the net sound quality of HD and XM (via the satellites) is about the same. If you've found otherwise, it may be a result of the specific tuner you're listening to, and not the potential of the technology itself.
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Primary sources: VPI TNT III/SDS turntable, SME-V arm; Bryston BDP-3 digital player; Bryston BDA-3 DAC; McIntosh MVP-881 disc player; McIntosh MR-80 tuner. Preamplifier Audio Research Ref 5SE; Audio Research Ref Phono 2SE; Moon 430 HA. Amplifiers Conrad Johnson Premier 1B; Audio Research D-300; Bryston 4B. Speakers Infinity IRS Beta. Recorders Tandberg TD20A; Crown SX-822; Nakamichi 670ZX; Alesis Masterlink ML-9600. Power Tice Power Block/Titan (x2); McIntosh MPC1500; API Ultra II-20; multiple 20A derated dedicated lines. |
#18
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I've had 3 different HD tuners at my residence. The sound quality has widely varied between these 3 tuners but comparing to satellite radio, in my experience, isn't even close. The high frequency "swirling" sound that I've always heard in satellite radio isn't present on HD1 broadcasts, by and large. That sound on satellite radio literally makes me uncomfortable.
My issue with HD tuners has been how unforgiving they sound. The little Sony was very round sounding but had a higher noise floor than the HD tuner implemented in the Marantz AV8802A processor that I currently use and enjoy, and would think is as good as HD radio can sound. There was a Sony on Audiogon, yesterday, btw.
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Christian south: Mark Levinson No. 52 pre, Bricasti M28 amps, Lumin A1, Oppo BDP-205, Pioneer CT-43, Sony SS-AR1 Speakers, Audioquest Dragon PCs, Audioquest speaker cables, Audioquest interconnects, HB Power Design Powerslave Star Galaxy power distributor north: Vitus SIA-030, Luxman D10X, Sony TC-KA3ES, Harbeth 40.2, Siltech cables |
#19
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Clark, you asked about some of the specific artifacts HD radio produces and how it falls short.
From my listening with a Sony XDR-F1HD forced to analog only (no blend) vs HD1: 1. HD1 was unable to accurately reproduce massed strings on MPR 99.5 KSJN classical concerts. 2. On MPR A Prairie Home Companion I was unable to tell the difference between a new Martin guitar and a 50 y.o. Martin guitar both played by the company’s president. Both guitars sounded the same. On the analog main carrier the difference was clearly audible and I had a preference for the sound of the older guitar. 3. On HD1 I was unable to hear the hall sound on familiar classical recordings where it was clearly audible on the analog main carrier. I sold the Sony XDR-F1HD and never looked back. HD radio is not a Hi-Fi medium. HD radio is also the Camel’s nose under the tent in that Ibiquity has proposed an all-digital future with no analog main carrier - effectively obsoleting all of our analog tuners and removing the only hi-fi radio alternative we have. Tom
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Main System: Amati Futura Mains Amati Homage VOX Center, Proac Response 1sc Rears, Three MC2301's for L,C,R MC 602 for the rears C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80 Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material. Lake House: Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3 OnDeck: McIntosh MAC 4300v |
#20
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