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  #31  
Old 01-06-2016, 06:33 PM
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rottikid rottikid is offline
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What settings should I use for Marantz AV 8801 Processor for Focal Sopra No2 speakers: I am confused please help.
1. Crossover goes from 40Hz to 250 Hz. What is best setting

2. Setting for Speakers/ Bass
Subwoofer Mode. LFE + Main or just LFE
Then setting for LPF for LFE goes 80Hz, 90Hz, 100Hz, 110Hz, 120Hz, 150Hz, 200Hz or
250Hz.

Thank you so much. Please just tell me the settings to use that will give me the absolute best sound from the Sopra No2 speakers. I look forward to hearing from everyone.
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  #32  
Old 01-06-2016, 06:49 PM
95Dyna 95Dyna is offline
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The Sopras are down 6 db at 28 hz and 3 db at 34 hz. Cutting the sub in at 40 will cut out some of the fabulous low end performance of the Sopras. Maybe that's not important for home theatre. I don't know as I'm a strictly a 2 channel user where the overlap would impact negatively.
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  #33  
Old 01-06-2016, 07:23 PM
Superfrg Superfrg is offline
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Rottikid, are you using a subwoofer at all, and do you need to setup only for stereo or 5.1 as well?
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  #34  
Old 01-06-2016, 07:42 PM
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I want to setup for both. Am using an M&K MX200 sub. The low pass filter goes from 40Hz to 250 Hz. What do you recommend. The Marantz has Audyssey which recommends setting the filter to 250Hz.

Front speakers I think set to Large. What do you recommend for the crossover. I want to get the best sound possible. I'm guessing 250Hz. For the Bass Subwoofer Mode again I'm guessing LFE + Main. Crossover for the LPF for LFE GOES FROM 250 Hz to 80 Hz. What do you recommend. The rear, side and center channels Audyssey chooses 80 Hz. Is that ok. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. Want to get everything she for when speakers arrive.
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  #35  
Old 01-06-2016, 10:05 PM
Glisse Glisse is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rottikid View Post
I want to setup for both. Am using an M&K MX200 sub. The low pass filter goes from 40Hz to 250 Hz. What do you recommend. The Marantz has Audyssey which recommends setting the filter to 250Hz.

Front speakers I think set to Large. What do you recommend for the crossover. I want to get the best sound possible. I'm guessing 250Hz. For the Bass Subwoofer Mode again I'm guessing LFE + Main. Crossover for the LPF for LFE GOES FROM 250 Hz to 80 Hz. What do you recommend. The rear, side and center channels Audyssey chooses 80 Hz. Is that ok. I really appreciate you taking the time to help me. Want to get everything she for when speakers arrive.
Best to experiment to find out what sounds best to you. But a couple of comments:

Using the highest LPF on the sub itself, which seems to be 250Hz, is preferable, assuming you can't actually turn off the filter. Reason being is that the Marantz is applying a LPF, and applying two filters causes phase problems.

Audyssey have consistently maintained that the best setting for all speakers is typically 80Hz. Regardless how "big" the main (Front L/R) speakers are. The reason for this is that Audyssey typically had relatively few filters available below 80Hz for the primary channels, compared to what they make available for the .1 sub channel. My experience is that this is something you should play around with. The choice of what range of normal low frequency material (as opposed to LFE) is sent to the sub or the main speakers would depend on:
  • How good the sub is
  • How good the main speakers are
  • How good is the amplification driving the main speakers (the Sopras are demanding below 60Hz - they need an amplifier capable of delivering decent current into 3ohms)
  • How difficult the room may be in terms of bass response
How LFE + Main works varies across brands, and I don't have a Marantz processor. But typically it means that the sub is now playing bass frequencies from the primary channels IN ADDITION to the speakers of those primary channels, up to the sub's LPF setting. Which is why it is sometimes called Double Bass. Certainly not advisable with Sopras as your main speakers, unless you have some weird room modes. I think plenty of people misinterpret this option and think it somehow enables them to get more bass out of the main speaker - in fact it is to drive additional bass out of the sub. It would only apply if your main speakers are set to Large, with a crossover point below 80Hz.

Would recommend you set up the Sopras on their own, i.e. in stereo with everything by-passed (direct mode) to find the best position in terms of distance from rear and side walls, toe-in etc, before you even start looking at Audyssey. As per the excellent advice from Superfrg in his earlier post.

I like Audyssey for surround sound / AV duties, but not for music. So I would always listen to music in Pure/Direct mode myself, but that's just me. The Marantz has a reputation for having a pretty decent preamp stage, so maybe start saving for a decent 2 channel power amp worthy of the Sopra as the next goal? Or alternatively a very good integrated that has an AV by-pass facility. The Sopra are certainly resolving enough to highlight any deficiencies in source or amplification, whereas something like the Aria line, by example, would be much more "forgiving".
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  #36  
Old 01-07-2016, 02:59 PM
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Glisse,

Thank you so much for taking the time to explain. I have two Amps the Amp I am thinking of using for Sopra No2 is the Aragon 8008x3. The specifications are 200 watts per channel, Frequency 5Hz-20kHz flat, THD <0.05. The other amp I have is the Marantz MM8077 150 watts x 7 channels, 150 watts (20Hz020kHz 0.08& s/n 105db) Frequency response (Analogue In) 8Hz-100kHz +/- 3d. I am thinking of using this amp for the other channels. Will this setup give me the best sound quality?

The other question I have which I am confused about for the front Sopra No2 speakers the Marantz AV Processor lets me set the Crossover of the Main Front and Left speakers to 40Hz or up to 250Hz. What setting do you suggest I use. Will 40Hz produce the best sound quality? Please let me know.

Can you explain to me how the following would work if it is at all possible. I would like to be able to eventually get another preamp just for listening to music. Is there a way to insert a preamp into the Marantz AV processor to use just for music. Would I be able to select it from the AV Processor say as a source that isn't being used for example DVD. When I want to use the home theater I would just select let's say blue ray player or Directv. All of the amplifier outputs would go to the Marantz AV Processor. The new Preamp would go to DVD when I just want to use the 2 channel preamp. Is this at all possible or is there a better way to do it. Thanks again for all your help. I look forward to hearing from you. Have a great day.
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  #37  
Old 01-08-2016, 04:30 PM
Glisse Glisse is offline
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The more important specification for the amp, in terms of suiting the Sopra, is how much current it can generate. As a rough guide, whichever amp gets closest to doubling its power rating into 4 ohms will be better at providing the current needed to suit the Sopra. Most likely, it would be the Aragon. If for no other reason than most multi-channel power amps share one power transformer across all channels. So try using the Aragon just for the Sopra ( so 2 channels only). I have not heard an Aragon amp for many years, but my recollection was they were a bit harsh in the treble, which the Sopra is not going to hide. If so, try the Marantz. I'd prefer to put up with softer bass than a screeching top end.

I suspect when you are listening to 2 channel music, you may prefer listening to the system running Pure/Direct rather than using the DSP section of the Marantz pre/pro which will be doing the crossover. This should just send the stereo signal to the Sopras in full range, with no bass management, no delays, etc etc. But I don't know how the Marantz can be configured.

So the crossover point for the mains (FL and FR) is only an issue for surround sound/AV duties. As I said in the earlier post, Audyssey would prefer you to set everything to 80Hz, because that is optimum for the Audyssey filters. What will work best will depend on the characteristics of your room, speaker positioning (particularly FL, FR and sub) etc. So just try different settings - although you may get sick of running the Audyssey optimisation after the first 10 times. I would not go below 60Hz myself, and suggest you don't go above 80Hz.

For future system development, you have it the wrong way around. The AV system hangs off your music system. There is no point looping a preamplifier out of your Marantz then back into it. Even with the World's Best Preamplifier, the sound could only get worse, not better.

The high quality stereo preamplifier you proposed would be connected to whatever power amplifier was running the Sopra. The Marantz AV PrePro would connect to an AV bypass input on the new stereo preamplifier: an AV bypass input means that it bypasses the volume control of the preamplifier, so you can use this input when you want to listen to your surround sound setup.

When listening to music, your sources should be connected to an input on the new preamplifier. If your sources, such as a DVD/Blueray, don't have a decent analog output (i.e. their DACs are not as good as, or no better than the Marantz), then there is simply no point in buying a separate preamplifier at this stage.

You have bought quite high end speakers, using all your available funds (and perhaps even more!!) on the basis that it is something you can grow into over the long term. Makes sense to me, as speakers that are good, are always good. But I think you need to make a plan on how you will evolve the system, and I would strongly suggest this order:
  • A 2 channel power amp that is capable of achieving the transparency and dynamics that the Sopra are capable of. As per my earlier comments. Alternative is a very high level integrated amplifier - only because a decent preamplifier is an expensive component, and shackling a good power amp (and the Sopras) to an average preamplifier is a waste of money.
  • A decent preamplifier - something like a Wyred4Sound STP-SE would be the absolute minimum to potentially offer any real improvement over the Marantz.
  • A decent source for music, most likely to be a DAC.
Enjoy the journey!
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  #38  
Old 01-10-2016, 12:43 AM
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rottikid rottikid is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Glisse View Post
The more important specification for the amp, in terms of suiting the Sopra, is how much current it can generate. As a rough guide, whichever amp gets closest to doubling its power rating into 4 ohms will be better at providing the current needed to suit the Sopra. Most likely, it would be the Aragon. If for no other reason than most multi-channel power amps share one power transformer across all channels. So try using the Aragon just for the Sopra ( so 2 channels only). I have not heard an Aragon amp for many years, but my recollection was they were a bit harsh in the treble, which the Sopra is not going to hide. If so, try the Marantz. I'd prefer to put up with softer bass than a screeching top end. I suspect when you are listening to 2 channel music, you may prefer listening to the system running Pure/Direct rather than using the DSP section of the Marantz pre/pro which will be doing the crossover. This should just send the stereo signal to the Sopras in full range, with no bass management, no delays, etc etc. But I don't know how the Marantz can be configured. So the crossover point for the mains (FL and FR) is only an issue for surround sound/AV duties. As I said in the earlier post, Audyssey would prefer you to set everything to 80Hz, because that is optimum for the Audyssey filters. What will work best will depend on the characteristics of your room, speaker positioning (particularly FL, FR and sub) etc. So just try different settings - although you may get sick of running the Audyssey optimisation after the first 10 times. I would not go below 60Hz myself, and suggest you don't go above 80Hz. For future system development, you have it the wrong way around. The AV system hangs off your music system. There is no point looping a preamplifier out of your Marantz then back into it. Even with the World's Best Preamplifier, the sound could only get worse, not better. The high quality stereo preamplifier you proposed would be connected to whatever power amplifier was running the Sopra. The Marantz AV PrePro would connect to an AV bypass input on the new stereo preamplifier: an AV bypass input means that it bypasses the volume control of the preamplifier, so you can use this input when you want to listen to your surround sound setup. When listening to music, your sources should be connected to an input on the new preamplifier. If your sources, such as a DVD/Blueray, don't have a decent analog output (i.e. their DACs are not as good as, or no better than the Marantz), then there is simply no point in buying a separate preamplifier at this stage. You have bought quite high end speakers, using all your available funds (and perhaps even more!!) on the basis that it is something you can grow into over the long term. Makes sense to me, as speakers that are good, are always good. But I think you need to make a plan on how you will evolve the system, and I would strongly suggest this order:[*]A 2 channel power amp that is capable of achieving the transparency and dynamics that the Sopra are capable of. As per my earlier comments. Alternative is a very high level integrated amplifier - only because a decent preamplifier is an expensive component, and shackling a good power amp (and the Sopras) to an average preamplifier is a waste of money.[*]A decent preamplifier - something like a Wyred4Sound STP-SE would be the absolute minimum to potentially offer any real improvement over the Marantz.[*]A decent source for music, most likely to be a DAC. Enjoy the journey!

Thank you so much for all of your help. I am starting to get a better grasp on what I will need in order to get the most out of the Sopra No2 speakers. I figured I would slowly build my system from the speakers as money becomes available. Can you suggest some amps I can check out that would be a good match for the Sopra's. What would be a good match in the 3 to $5,000 range. I can't wait until my speakers are in. Hopefully this week or next. I will keep you and everyone else posted on my progress on positioning them. As you suggested I will set them up,(position) them first Direct/Pure mode and try incorporate the sub. After that I will run Audyssey setup for Home theater. Thanks again for all your help have a goo night.
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  #39  
Old 01-10-2016, 03:34 AM
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Slimbo Slimbo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rottikid View Post
Thank you so much for all of your help. I am starting to get a better grasp on what I will need in order to get the most out of the Sopra No2 speakers. I figured I would slowly build my system from the speakers as money becomes available. Can you suggest some amps I can check out that would be a good match for the Sopra's. What would be a good match in the 3 to $5,000 range. I can't wait until my speakers are in. Hopefully this week or next. I will keep you and everyone else posted on my progress on positioning them. As you suggested I will set them up,(position) them first Direct/Pure mode and try incorporate the sub. After that I will run Audyssey setup for Home theater. Thanks again for all your help have a goo night.
I have very good results with a Luxman L-505 UX powering my Focal Diablos. I think that would be a good place to start looking. I've heard good results from a Naim Supernait also. Both of these should be in your price range.
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  #40  
Old 01-10-2016, 10:17 AM
Superfrg Superfrg is offline
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I use an ATI 6000 series amp im very happy with.
Theres a new 4000 series for less cash.

They build amps for Mark Levison and some other brands.

Long warranty, Balanced, can be configured for more channels, rock solid and sounds excellent.

Hard to beat at the price.
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