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  #21  
Old 04-12-2015, 10:06 AM
Elberoth Elberoth is offline
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Originally Posted by fritzcurtis View Post
WD Hard Drive vs Samsung PRO. No brainer. Speed to access data has to be quicker as well.
We are arguing about Kingston SSD to Samsung SSD swap, not HDD to SSD.
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  #22  
Old 04-12-2015, 10:53 AM
Golucid Golucid is offline
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We are arguing about Kingston SSD to Samsung SSD swap, not HDD to SSD.
Elberoth. Earlier in the posts I stated that all of this is optional and I decided to replace that drive for my own reasonings - logical for me and me alone. The key phrase, optional. This being the case, it might appear reasonable to someone else or not. The beauty in all of this is that you are not required to take this upgrade undertaking - but could be nice to have an idea or a roadmap about how to make the upgrade using whatever drive(s) or memory alotment you choose - or not. It's not about the brand or whatever, it's more about the roadmap to doing an upgrade.

Heart and soul, a great deal of time on my part was put into creating this journey for everyone to read. I didn't get paid or receive a sponsorship - all my own time and on my own dime - and it was a pleasure to do so. There isn't much of anything about the MB100 out there. So why not share the knowledge and experience. More importantly, I did it because I like the folks on AA and I decided I would share my personal journey good, bad or indifferent with this fantastic group on AA. In my book, a positive thing to do.

I see a trend happening.

Lets continue to keep the thread positive, supportive and an up-lifting means to discuss ideas to advance the cause upward.

Thanks!

Last edited by Golucid; 04-12-2015 at 11:45 AM.
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  #23  
Old 04-12-2015, 11:44 AM
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jdandy jdandy is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Golucid View Post
Elberoth. Earlier in the posts I stated that all of this is optional and I decided to replace that drive for my own reasonings - logical for me and me alone. The key phrase, optional. This being the case, it might appear reasonable to someone else or not. The beautify in all of this, you are not required to take this upgrade undertaking - but it is nice to have an idea or a roadmap about how to make the upgrade using whatever drive or memory you choose - or not. It's not about the brand or whatever, it's more about the roadmap to doing an upgrade.

Heart and soul, a great deal of time on my part was put into creating this journey for everyone to read. I didn't get paid or receive a sponsorship - all my own time and on my own dime - and it was a pleasure to do so. I did it because I like the folks on AA so I decided I would share my experience good, bad or indifferent with this fantastic group on AA. In my book, a positive thing to do.

I see a trend happening.

I'd like to see the thread to return to a positive, supportive and up-lifting means to discuss.

Thanks!
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Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
We are arguing about Kingston SSD to Samsung SSD swap, not HDD to SSD.
Adam.......I have to agree with David's last post. The only one arguing here seems to be you. David is not really asking for opinions about specific parts, i.e. hard drives, RAM, batteries, etc., or requesting additional technical information about HDD or SSD performance characteristics, rather he is offering step by step insight into an experiment he has performed with his own MB100 at his own expense. It is clear to me the upgrades and changes have improved the performance of his MB100 in relation to his original experience with it as outlined in earlier posts in another thread.

We are fortunate that David has made this information available for all of us in the McIntosh forum. It represents a huge effort on his part to perform and document this work for our benefit. There is no point in nitpicking David's choices of one part or another over what you might have used. You didn't perform this experiment or document your build so why try to rip into David's effort for no reason other than debate. If you think you can make an MB100 perform better than David's upgraded MB100, then do it and let us know how it turned out. Perhaps then we could have a shoot-out between your MB100 and David's MB100. That would certainly be worthy of a new thread and discussion.
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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
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  #24  
Old 04-13-2015, 05:30 AM
Elberoth Elberoth is offline
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Dan - I agree whith most of what you posted, and I'm also thankful Golucid made such a nice writup. Having written my share of writups in the past, I know that it takes considerable time and effort ... something most forum members are NOT prepared to do.

The thing I see missing in the writep is the explanation that the SSD drive replacement is really only an option (an expensive one at that !) - that was not really proven to bring any performance or reliability improvements.

I can see a prospective MB100 buyer, with no computer background, beeing unnecesarely put off by the extra cost of the parts mentioned.
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  #25  
Old 04-13-2015, 11:12 AM
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jdandy jdandy is offline
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Adam.......Thanks for taking my comments in the spirit intended. I understand the point you make. You are correct that most MB100 owners might find themselves in deep water to take on the project that David documented. I know I would. I think the point to remember here is David was "experimenting", not reengineering the MB100. It is possible that the choice and implementation of internal parts may in some cases seem redundant to you with respect to the stock parts or not necessarily delivering a true and measureable performance boost to data flow and storage. None the less, David's project has been enlightening and certainly appears to have raised the performance bar on his MB100. I never took his "how-to-do-it" posts as promoting his experiment. I read the thread as a way for David to share his excitement with us as he set about trying to solve the issues he experienced with his first MB100. Since the thread is not an engineering white paper, I felt it important not to drift too far off the original topic by challenging his parts choices and any questionable performance advantages from those choices. That was never the intended purpose of the thread.

I have read your posts for quite some time and have always been impressed with your knowledge and ability to explain your thoughts. You have a far greater understanding of the digital world than me. What might make an interesting thread would be your opinions of how to improve the performance of the MB100 with full explanations on the advantages or disadvantages of one part or another in a build you might like to see. In a thread like that everyone would have the opportunity to weigh in with their ideas and challenge yours if they felt their choices represented greater gains. A thread such as that might be a excellent learning experience for all of us and one that would compliment the information David has provided in this thread.
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STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario
LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113
VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A

Last edited by jdandy; 04-13-2015 at 11:18 AM.
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  #26  
Old 04-13-2015, 12:20 PM
Golucid Golucid is offline
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Originally Posted by Elberoth View Post
Dan - I agree whith most of what you posted, and I'm also thankful Golucid made such a nice writup. Having written my share of writups in the past, I know that it takes considerable time and effort ... something most forum members are NOT prepared to do.

The thing I see missing in the writep is the explanation that the SSD drive replacement is really only an option (an expensive one at that !) - that was not really proven to bring any performance or reliability improvements.

I can see a prospective MB100 buyer, with no computer background, beeing unnecesarely put off by the extra cost of the parts mentioned.

Elberoth...Why Replace OS Drive SSD?

1. Particularly useful if you have a brand new MB100. Replacing all the drives allows you a disaster recovery option. You can always return the unit to a fresh out of the box status. This is because you have two virgin drives that you haven't configured or added data too.

*Virgin in this case does not mean blank empty drives. Rather, Autonomics mirrors their OS + Library data on the OS and Library drives

2. If you have an MB100 that you are actively using, you can TELNET into the system and reset the system to factory defaults and this too will, I believe - I have not verified this personally, that the drives are also returned to factory defaults. Meaning, the OS is as pure as it was applied to the drive when they system arrived brand new. For example:

a. all configuration settings cleared
b. call cache and virtual space is cleared
c. all files perhaps created during the setup process erased [windows loves to create files but does a poor job cleaning up after itself.]

*As I said, I have not verified and it is very possible that a terminal command might return the system to a true clean state.

Still, duplicating the OS drive affords you a disaster recovery option.

*Another point, what if the OS update that Autonomics pushes from time to time fails or, you do not like the update at all or there are problems with it. You can roll back.

3. As all things do, things fail. You now have an exact copy of the OS drive. As it stands, if either of two drives fail and recall that you brought up the issue of SSD reliability. Well, if that is the case, even better and as you point out, an expensive one at that!/put off by the extra cost. This alone justifies the $89.00 expense. You have a backup and even super better, the master copy drive!

4. By having these original source drives, you are not reliant on having to mail your MB100 back to McIntosh or proxy the service through your dealer - I think this also justifies the burden of spending $89.00. If something should go wrong, you have the original drives to copy from and create additional drives as needed - hopefully you do not have to. With your CMOS battery luck Elberroth, you may never have to replace drive in your life EVER! . For those us not a lucky as you - we are able to duplicate the master drives again. So...time, hassle and having to be without your MB100 and send it back to McIntosh or the service center and wait many months for repair. $89.00 bucks too much?

*note: this discussion is not about the Logic Board [MoBo]. If that fails. You must return it to McIntosh or the Dealer, just remember to reinstall the original equipment: SSD + HDD + 2GB RAM. Elbertoth, this doesn't apply to you. Your MB100 will outlive us all! LOL

5. I personally believe the Kingston SSDs are lack luster [particularly the one installed on the MB100]. I have owned them in the past and disliked their performance. An easy internet search turns up results that the Kingston SSD is not the best on the market performer next to the Samsung SSD Pro. What is more, and this was last year, I had an at length conversation with Autonomics and "off-record" and this is in one of my threads, McIntosh required Autonomics to build the unit using the cheapest parts possible because of that bottom-line profit. That alone gives one pause to consider.

I selected the 128GB because couple reasons. But first, lets address again the statement, an expensive one at that!/put off by the extra cost. The Samsung 128GB SSD costs $89. It's $89.00. You just forked over $6,000 for the MB100 and it's likely that you have other expensive equipment and cables! It's $89.00 bucks! and if you are Amazon Prime, free shipping and likely no tax.

I believe the statement "an expensive one at that!/put off by the extra cost" is immaterial and in need of a rephrase. I believe the correct question might be better asked "put off by the extra effort?" Wait, lets rephrase again because I think the way the question is asked is a bit pejorative. Rather, "is replacing the OS drive a fair and reasonable effort?"

1. For the brand and level I selected, the smallest flavor available in the USA new on Amazon is the The Samsung 128 SSD Pro. Of course, you can pick a plethora of other drive manufactures with varying GB sizes.

2. Because the OS on the Kingston drive is Microsoft and looking at the files. It is clear to me that the OS, like with all desktop computers: multitasking, virtual space and caching. You can take look a the OS screenshots I posted [other thread]. What this tells me is that data is being written. Because data is written, I have installed a drive that will write data faster. I've also allowed a for ample room not only OS multitasking, virtual space and caching to be performed but also allow for [confirmed with Autonomics] lots of caching space specifically for audio files as it grabs files from the library drive during playback.

3. Keep in mind, we have not addressed all the functions the MB100 affords during simple local media storage playback. We have streaming services, GUI and IOS interactions as well as the ability to have your MB100 manage and present photos. The MB100 is feature rich and performance hungry if pushed.

4. Oh yes, boot time. My MB100, my first model, took on average 45-2 minutes to boot. That's using the stock drives. However, with the new SSDs. My boot time... and that is this morning, Monday 13 April 2015, took 8 seconds! I tried it again at 12:58 today as well. Counting "one thousand one, one thousand two...." Booted in 12 seconds and was playable. This makes it measurable, yes?


Conclusion
$89.00 is a mute point. Is the effort worthwhile? I believe so... of course, my personal belief and founded via personal experience, analysis and in conversation with other IT experts, McIntosh, Autonomics and my buddy Fritz Curtis, my MB100 brother.

Last edited by Golucid; 04-14-2015 at 06:01 PM.
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  #27  
Old 04-13-2015, 02:02 PM
fritzcurtis fritzcurtis is offline
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I would wholeheartedly agree with everything David just mentioned. Backup alone, again, is worth the price. Elbereth, do yo have any experiences with the MS750? As many of us on the forum have the MS servers, we have learned that having a backup is well worth the time and effort.
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  #28  
Old 05-11-2015, 02:53 PM
leonardas leonardas is offline
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Default MB100: Hard Drive [SSD] + RAM Upgrade Instructions

I just performed the solid state drive update per instructions. I noticed the motherboard has a button battery to save the bios settings. What happens when this battery wears out? I think as long as you keep the unit plugged in it will not use the battery and it should last. From my PC experience if you leave it unplugged the battery will last about 3 years.

Leonard
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  #29  
Old 05-11-2015, 03:29 PM
Golucid Golucid is offline
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Originally Posted by leonardas View Post
I just performed the solid state drive update per instructions. I noticed the motherboard has a button battery to save the bios settings. What happens when this battery wears out? I think as long as you keep the unit plugged in it will not use the battery and it should last. From my PC experience if you leave it unplugged the battery will last about 3 years. Leonard
Leonard, there is a great deal of debate about the bios battery and its life expectancy. Folks have debated 3-15 years is the life expectancy. My experience, I have had to replace the battery sooner. Others have stated never having to replace a battery. The choice is up to you.

As a matter of fact, I created a thread about this subject. Search for: MB100: Bios... Something should come up. I'm on my iPhone and do not recall the thread name, so can't post the url right now.

Perhaps just change the battery in 3 or so years to be on the safe side, maybe? After all batteries are cheap, a couple of bucks at most.

Last edited by Golucid; 05-11-2015 at 11:55 PM.
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  #30  
Old 05-11-2015, 07:23 PM
leonardas leonardas is offline
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Originally Posted by Golucid View Post
Leonard, there is a great deal of debate about the bios battery and its life expectancy. Folks have debated 3-15 years is the life expectancy. My experience, I have had to replace the battery sooner. Others have stated never having to replace a battery. The choice is up to you.

As a matter of fact, I created a thread about this subject. Search for: MB100: Bios... Something should come up. I'm on my iPhone and do not recall the thread name, so Can't post the url right now.

Perhaps just change the battery in 3 or so years to be on the safe side, maybe? After all batteries are cheap, a couple of bucks at most.
I found your thread about the battery and bios. Would you have to change any bios values after replacing the battery, since any settings would be lost, or do you just go with the default settings? Would there be some indication the battery is getting weak? On the PC it lost the time and date settings.
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