AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Manufacturers Forums > McIntosh Audio

McIntosh Audio A Tradition of Excellence

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #41  
Old 06-27-2022, 04:56 PM
Formerly YB-2's Avatar
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
Retired

 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ Shore
Posts: 8,404
Default

Have zero problem with HD generated noise with my Sony or Yamaha tuners and did not with my Accuphase tuner when it was my main FM-squeeze.
__________________
Glenn...
Clearaudio SM Pro Focal Bathys JLA 10" Dominion Kuzma Stabi S w/MC & MM Magnepan 1,7i McIntosh MA8950 Oppo 203 Roon Nucleus Rose Hifi RS150B Shunyata Gemini-4 Sony ST-A6B, TA-F6B & PS-X75 Sorane SA1.2 & TA-1L Stillpoints LP1v2 WW Pt, Au & Ag
Reply With Quote
  #42  
Old 06-27-2022, 08:30 PM
cleeds cleeds is offline
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,432
Default

I think we may have different definitions of what HD radio self noise is. Here's a pretty good explanation of how analog FM gets corrupted by so-called HD.
__________________
Primary sources: VPI TNT III/SDS turntable, SME-V arm; Bryston BDP-3 digital player; Bryston BDA-3 DAC; McIntosh MVP-881 disc player; McIntosh MR-80 tuner. Preamplifier Audio Research Ref 5SE; Audio Research Ref Phono 2SE; Moon 430 HA. Amplifiers Conrad Johnson Premier 1B; Audio Research D-300; Bryston 4B. Speakers Infinity IRS Beta. Recorders Tandberg TD20A; Crown SX-822; Nakamichi 670ZX; Alesis Masterlink ML-9600. Power Tice Power Block/Titan (x2); McIntosh MPC1500; API Ultra II-20; multiple 20A derated dedicated lines.
Reply With Quote
  #43  
Old 06-27-2022, 10:41 PM
W9TR's Avatar
W9TR W9TR is offline
Senior Member
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: The Neutral Zone
Posts: 4,665
Default

Brian’s info referenced above is spot on.

Any tuner with high quality post detection filtering will reduce HD self noise. This knocks out older tube tuners for sure. They are, in a word, obsolete.

More modern tuners may have better post detection filtering or DSP based post detection filtering which would be even better. That’s probably my why many HD tuners have lower self noise when forced into analog mode.

I was shocked to find WFMT using HD subcarriers. They were the paragon of quality back in the day. Just outstanding sonics. I would write them a letter to complain that you are getting unacceptable levels of self noise and will cancel your subscription if they don’t cease using HD subcarriers.

The only way to completely eliminate HD self noise is to:
Listen in mono, or
Eliminate the subcarriers that cause it. That’s up to the station.
__________________
Main System:
Amati Futura Mains
Amati Homage VOX Center,
Proac Response 1sc Rears,
Three MC2301's for L,C,R
MC 602 for the rears
C 1100, MX 151, MCD 1100, MR 80
Nottingham Dais with Wave Mechanic
Sumiko Palo Santos Presentation

SurfacePro 3, RPi 4, ROON, WW Starlight Platinum USB, Schiit Yggdrasil, Benchmark DAC3 HGC

MX 151, OppO BDP-95, JVC RS-500 DILA projector, 106" diagonal Stewart Luxus Screenwall Deluxe with Studiotek 130 G3 material.

Lake House:
Ohm F, MC 275V, C2300, MR 77, Rega P3

OnDeck:
McIntosh MAC 4300v
Reply With Quote
  #44  
Old 07-17-2022, 08:05 PM
Brandtwi Brandtwi is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Apr 2013
Posts: 1
Default

Can y'all tell me why u don't like HD radio??? I have it in my car and I like it. Here in New Orleans we have some really good community & college radio stations that I would love to listen to in my house, but I can't find any HD tuners.

What is bad about HD radio and why aren't they making HD tuners?
Reply With Quote
  #45  
Old 07-18-2022, 08:33 AM
Formerly YB-2's Avatar
Formerly YB-2 Formerly YB-2 is online now
Retired

 
Join Date: Jan 2010
Location: NJ Shore
Posts: 8,404
Default

HD is fine for automobiles where road noise makes it nearly impossible to have true "high-fidelity". For serious listening, it is anything but high-fidelity and does not compare to a well broadcast FM signal received on a good antenna and a good tuner. HD was a bad solution to a problem that did not exist. As a result, many stations that bought into the "bill of goods" that IBOC was selling have since removed their HD broadcast equipment. HD also has the capability to create 'self-noise' on FM broadcasts as it rides as side-bands on the FM signal and many tuners do not have the filters needed to remove same. Tuner manufacturers were smarter than many broadcast stations and saw HD for what it was and did not bother with the expense of adding to most all tuners. Especially over the recent years.
__________________
Glenn...
Clearaudio SM Pro Focal Bathys JLA 10" Dominion Kuzma Stabi S w/MC & MM Magnepan 1,7i McIntosh MA8950 Oppo 203 Roon Nucleus Rose Hifi RS150B Shunyata Gemini-4 Sony ST-A6B, TA-F6B & PS-X75 Sorane SA1.2 & TA-1L Stillpoints LP1v2 WW Pt, Au & Ag
Reply With Quote
  #46  
Old 07-18-2022, 08:53 AM
cleeds cleeds is offline
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Formerly YB-2 View Post
HD ... is anything but high-fidelity and does not compare to a well broadcast FM signal received on a good antenna and a good tuner ...
+1. So-called "HD" radio is lossy digital. There's more info on its limitations in posts earlier in this thread. If there are HD channels you enjoy, you might get better fidelity if you can find those same channels streaming.
__________________
Primary sources: VPI TNT III/SDS turntable, SME-V arm; Bryston BDP-3 digital player; Bryston BDA-3 DAC; McIntosh MVP-881 disc player; McIntosh MR-80 tuner. Preamplifier Audio Research Ref 5SE; Audio Research Ref Phono 2SE; Moon 430 HA. Amplifiers Conrad Johnson Premier 1B; Audio Research D-300; Bryston 4B. Speakers Infinity IRS Beta. Recorders Tandberg TD20A; Crown SX-822; Nakamichi 670ZX; Alesis Masterlink ML-9600. Power Tice Power Block/Titan (x2); McIntosh MPC1500; API Ultra II-20; multiple 20A derated dedicated lines.
Reply With Quote
  #47  
Old 07-18-2022, 03:02 PM
Maks's Avatar
Maks Maks is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Chicago
Posts: 1,936
Default

You guys realize HD doesn't mean "high definition"?

Last edited by Maks; 07-18-2022 at 03:04 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #48  
Old 07-18-2022, 03:33 PM
cleeds cleeds is offline
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Maks View Post
You guys realize HD doesn't mean "high definition"?
Correct. It doesn't mean "hybrid digital" either.
It actually stands for ... nothing.
Which, given what I think about so-called "HD" radio, is oddly appropriate.
__________________
Primary sources: VPI TNT III/SDS turntable, SME-V arm; Bryston BDP-3 digital player; Bryston BDA-3 DAC; McIntosh MVP-881 disc player; McIntosh MR-80 tuner. Preamplifier Audio Research Ref 5SE; Audio Research Ref Phono 2SE; Moon 430 HA. Amplifiers Conrad Johnson Premier 1B; Audio Research D-300; Bryston 4B. Speakers Infinity IRS Beta. Recorders Tandberg TD20A; Crown SX-822; Nakamichi 670ZX; Alesis Masterlink ML-9600. Power Tice Power Block/Titan (x2); McIntosh MPC1500; API Ultra II-20; multiple 20A derated dedicated lines.
Reply With Quote
  #49  
Old 07-18-2022, 05:43 PM
JBT JBT is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Jul 2009
Location: Lago Vista Texas Downtown Austin and Frisco Colorado
Posts: 2,017
Default

Real HD Audio


https://www.realhd-audio.com/?tag=mark-waldrep

Last edited by JBT; 07-18-2022 at 05:45 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #50  
Old 07-18-2022, 06:10 PM
cleeds cleeds is offline
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Posts: 1,432
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by JBT View Post
That guy is still around? Did his Kickstarter campaign ever take off?
__________________
Primary sources: VPI TNT III/SDS turntable, SME-V arm; Bryston BDP-3 digital player; Bryston BDA-3 DAC; McIntosh MVP-881 disc player; McIntosh MR-80 tuner. Preamplifier Audio Research Ref 5SE; Audio Research Ref Phono 2SE; Moon 430 HA. Amplifiers Conrad Johnson Premier 1B; Audio Research D-300; Bryston 4B. Speakers Infinity IRS Beta. Recorders Tandberg TD20A; Crown SX-822; Nakamichi 670ZX; Alesis Masterlink ML-9600. Power Tice Power Block/Titan (x2); McIntosh MPC1500; API Ultra II-20; multiple 20A derated dedicated lines.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 08:58 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video