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Subwoofers 80hz and Down under!

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  #51  
Old 07-12-2022, 04:47 PM
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Charles, I've heard superb stereo systems, and superb multi-channel ones.

The best multi-channel set-ups were carefully assembled by sound engineers, from Challenge Classics, from trptk, and from the Concertgebouw of Amsterdam.
When multi-channel is done properly, it wins from the best stereo for me.

Of course, most music is recorded in stereo.
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  #52  
Old 07-13-2022, 01:11 PM
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Kal, it's always fun and interesting to debate a critical point and I hear what Bart is saying.

In regard to three being the minimum number of channels, I'm not sure who is advocating this in the distant past, or claiming it proved, the implication being that even more channels would be better.

The only real life three channel system that I know of back in my youth was the Klipschorn/Cornwall "three channel" system which was not actually three channels but the center Cornwall was mono summed.

No, stereo has withstood the test of time and by far the vast majority of high end systems are 2-channel stereo systems. My solid silver AQ Well Signature IC's that are 24' in length are 28K. Cables alone including power conditioners for my simple 2-channel system runs about 120K. A system like mine goes to tremendous lengths to preserve the original stereo signal until it reaches the speakers.

The problem with all equalization is the digital equalizer. I would never employ a digital equalizer because it creates audible distortion that I can hear, easily. A company like Magico will provide digital equalization commensurate with the M3 or M6. The rest of the Q-sub will also be of commensurate quality.

I am confused/perplexed by Kal's statement concerning the WAMM/dual Thor's Hammers.

"FWIW, the best Wilson demo experience I've heard was, in fact, a 4.0 system with WAMM Master Chronosonics and dual Thor's Hammers. Frankly, I have no knowledge of how the bass management was handled but this was an all-digital system."

Below is my friend at Wilson's reply which speaks for itself but I will also have a comment:

"Hello Dr. Ruark,

Thank you for your email. I am unaware of any WAMM customer that is using Thors Hammers with their WAMM main speakers. Most WAMM owner have purchased the associated Master Subsonic to use as the subwoofer system with the main towers.

The use of a digital crossover in a WAMM system dismisses the time alignment precision built into the architecture while introducing digital conversion artifacts to the signal path. While it might be interesting to listen to, it is not how we intended the speaker to be used. When the WAMM is setup properly, the room correction system would be completely unnecessary.

Wilson Audio has yet to hear a digital room correction system that does not have serious compromises to the overall sound quality. There is no free lunch. Nothing compares to a properly setup set of loudspeakers in a room that is properly treated.

Your pair of XVX has many of the same adjustments and level of adjustment that the WAMM MC possesses. Integrating your Thors Hammer using the WATCH Controller is the best way to configure this system.



I hope this is helpful.

Thanks,"

My friend at Wilson worked with me diligently to achieve my XVX in my room. He has extensive knowledge of the Wilson speakers and has been with Wilson for many years. His comments are therefore authoritative. So if I understood correctly, Kal has listened to multiple WAMM systems and the one that happens to be fully digital is the one that sounds to his ears sounds the best.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 07-13-2022 at 01:24 PM.
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  #53  
Old 07-13-2022, 02:35 PM
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In regard to the Wilson MCH system, I could be wrong about the identity of the subs. I didn't pay close attention to them and they could have been Master Subsonics.

As for the audibility of a digital equaliser, I doubt if one can detect it unless one is using analog source material, thereby inserting an A/D and a D/A conversion as well.

Quote:
So if I understood correctly, Kal has listened to multiple WAMM systems and the one that happens to be fully digital is the one that sounds to his ears sounds the best.
Nope. The one that is multichannel (and, therefore, must be digital) is the one that sounded best, i.e., better than 2 channel systems.
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  #54  
Old 07-13-2022, 03:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
In regard to the Wilson MCH system, I could be wrong about the identity of the subs. I didn't pay close attention to them and they could have been Master Subsonics.

As for the audibility of a digital equaliser, I doubt if one can detect it unless one is using analog source material, thereby inserting an A/D and a D/A conversion as well.

Nope. The one that is multichannel (and, therefore, must be digital) is the one that sounded best, i.e., better than 2 channel systems.
Kal, there is a massive difference in the appearance of a Thor and a Master Subsonic. They would be impossible to confuse.

I couldn't disagree with you more about the effect of digital equalizers and neither could Wilson. They are audible in Wilson systems. You read the email. I'm not going to repeat myself.

Best

Charles
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  #55  
Old 07-13-2022, 05:56 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Kal, there is a massive difference in the appearance of a Thor and a Master Subsonic. They would be impossible to confuse.
I accept that they are substantially different. You are presuming that I would know the differences but, never having taken notice of either beforehand (or after), I would not. My host on that visit was Peter McGrath and he would certainly know.

Quote:
I couldn't disagree with you more about the effect of digital equalizers and neither could Wilson. They are audible in Wilson systems. You read the email. I'm not going to repeat myself.
OK.

Last edited by Kal Rubinson; 07-13-2022 at 05:58 PM.
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  #56  
Old 07-16-2022, 12:34 PM
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There wonít be any new subs until I get get into my new room. Then Iíll move onto Magico subs - if I go with the M6s. I desire to try the other speakers in my list above as well.

Why? The new mono amps are making all the difference. The Magico M3s are producing absolutely stunning base - and everything else - with the Westminster Labs REI monos we have in on demo. Unbelievable sound. I have no walls, the amps disappear along with the speakers. Layers upon layers of gorgeous music.

As another audiophile has stated ďthey are giant slayers.Ē I havenít decided if Iím going with the REIs yet - Iím still evaluating them along with some brand new designed BAT amps and the Audio Research 160M monos. But I have to say Iíve never heard a system sound like this.

Iím not even sure I need a new room. Iím absolutely amazed. Two other audiophiles that were here yesterday said the same thing. I think one of them is going to be purchasing some new amps and Magicos.

The system with demo REIs - 200w of Class A into 4 ohm speakers - bridged they give you 800w of Class A.
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  #57  
Old 07-16-2022, 03:21 PM
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Joe I may have missed it, but what is the msrp of the Westminster Labs mono amps?
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  #58  
Old 07-16-2022, 03:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Audio 1 View Post
Joe I may have missed it, but what is the msrp of the Westminster Labs mono amps?
Hi Buddy,

They are app $28,400. You probably desire the trigger so that they automatically will turn on when you turn on your Pre. I’m not sure how much that is yet, but probably around $1500 or so.

This is without their power cables and interconnects.
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Last edited by JoeN; 07-16-2022 at 04:13 PM.
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  #59  
Old 07-16-2022, 03:43 PM
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Some more info about the REIs here

https://www.audioaficionado.org/showthread.php?t=51358
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