Question about using Burmester RCA to XLR adapters and phase ...

[jdandy]

Joe.......Goodbye GAT, hello 077.

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Joe.......Goodbye GAT, hello 077.

Oooooooh nooooooo you didn't.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by joeinid

Oooooooh nooooooo you didn't.

Joe.......I don't own any C-J gear. I was talking about you.

[joeinid]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Joe.......I don't own any C-J gear. I was talking about you.

I know, I was thinking about that saying in my head. It's hard to convey in type. I am never letting go of the GAT, CR-1's or the mono 911's. Everything else is negotiable. If the 077 goes, it's only to get the 111.

[Masterlu]

[joeinid]

Winner, Winner, chicken dinner.

[joeinid]

Looks and sounds even better with the external power supply. I'm just sayin'

Originally Posted by Masterlu

[Glisse]

Originally Posted by Rayooo

so it sounds then with an inverting preamp like GAT, using with the 911s, one would reverse the speaker connections as default setting to correct for inversion in preamp... right??

Or said another way, the 911s outputs, using the unbalanced input adapters, will remain non-inverted to input signal....???

This is right. The Burmester adapter is expecting the RCA center pin to be hot, so the GAT into Burmester adapter into 911 will be out of phase with normal speaker connections. Another adapter, such as Cardas, would provide the correct phase with an inverting single ended source.

But absolute phase is rarely absolute

Many recordings are made out of phase, many multi-tracked recordings have some of the tracks out of phase, and recording engineers often play with phase to enhance the soundstage. Just try a few different recordings and go with what sounds best.

I think more important is the point Rocco made (he seems to know Burmester very, very well), and that is Burmester systems prefer to be run fully balanced, as they are designed on that basis. Whilst the adapters do work, I think transparency is reduced when they are used. I am in the process of changing all my sources to balanced designs.

The 911 seems designed for a low gain, low impedance balanced source to hit its sweet spot. Whilst Burmester have a switchable gain setting on their preamps (at least they do on my 088, I assume the 077 is the same), they recommend the lowest setting, which is +5dB gain, for Burmester power amps. And certainly, to me, the lower gain setting sounds better into my 911. The GAT, IIRC, has 25dB gain.

Joe is in the envious position of having two fantastic preamplifiers. I'd love to get a GAT (don't say that too quickly!!) to use with one of my Pass power amps, as the low imprdance, high gain, and sjngle ended output should be a great match. But I wouldn't be surprised if the 077 works better in Joe's system.

Just a wonderful system you are putting together, Joe

[jdebonth]

Originally Posted by m.tonetti

CAUTION: As MONO amp the 911MK3 can only be operated in balanced mode!

Hmmm, I think this word of caution in the 911 manual needs to be looked into a bit deeper.

When a solid-state amp is in mono mode the phase on one channel is reversed and both channels are run in anti-phase.

Does this mean that both pins on the XLR need to be 'live' so that both halves of the amp see the signal? I hate to say it but is it possible that with the single ended GAT only one out of two of the 911's amplification channels is being utilized?

I might be COMPLETELY wrong on this but it is worth investigating with a Burmester dealer or Burmester themselves in Berlin.

[Rayooo]

Originally Posted by jdebonth

Hmmm, I think this word of caution in the 911 manual needs to be looked into a bit deeper.

When a solid-state amp is in mono mode the phase on one channel is reversed and both channels are run in anti-phase.

Does this mean that both pins on the XLR need to be 'live' so that both halves of the amp see the signal? I hate to say it but is it possible that with the single ended GAT only one out of two of the 911's amplification channels is being utilized?

I might be COMPLETELY wrong on this but it is worth investigating with a Burmester dealer or Burmester themselves in Berlin.

My "ASSumption" is that in the case of Factory monoblock 911s, this isn't an issue, only with the stereo version of the 911??????