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  #101  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:17 AM
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Jerome W Jerome W is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cucumber_Jones
This thread derailed a long time ago.

So who is your shindo dealer? I thought there were no more dealers in France, or Europe for that matter.
The thread did not derail at all.
It is about experience with Shindo or A23 ICs.
I stated that I have no experience and do not plan to have one except maybe for trying A23 cables and Laurent and an other member stated that there are better cables out there, even to be used with Shindo.
This initiated the answer of Jonathan about the danger of using non SWC plugs which looked liked " ok if you do not buy them for the sound, at least buy them for the sake of your gear ! "
We are right in the middle of the topic.

Why so much curiosity about my dealer ? Importations / sales to Europe are ILLEGAL. Do you know what does it mean ?
So I won't mention any name but dealers all over the world including dealers in the US sell and send Shindo gear in 230V to customers in Europe. Satisfied ?
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  #102  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:19 AM
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Just to let you know : my very best friends here know who is my dealer and they won't say a word either !
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  #103  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cucumber_Jones
This thread derailed a long time ago.

So who is your shindo dealer? I thought there were no more dealers in France, or Europe for that matter.
There is a dealer in Europe. And he is acting illegally.
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  #104  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:23 AM
Cucumber_Jones Cucumber_Jones is offline
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Good stuff. I am pleased you have gear your love. The laws in Europe are stupid - great that you have found a source.

It would be cool if you could get some auditorium demo cables to see if the synergy works for you as it has for others.
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  #105  
Old 06-02-2013, 01:25 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cucumber_Jones
Good stuff. I am pleased you have gear your love. The laws in Europe are stupid - great that you have found a source.

It would be cool if you could get some auditorium demo cables to see if the synergy works for you as it has for others.
Highly agreed. Unfortunately, not only laws are stupid in Europe !
I will contact Keith to see if he can send me some cables to try.
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  #106  
Old 06-02-2013, 04:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome W View Post
..., I have my freedom of speech, which many owners deny to themselves, ...

It is good to know the way you are thinking about others.

I am impressed by the level of your self-esteem.

Shine a light.
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  #107  
Old 06-02-2013, 04:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by riesling

It is good to know the way you are thinking about others.

I am impressed by the level of your self-esteem.

Shine a light.
Take a phrase outside of its context and give it the sense you desire.
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  #108  
Old 06-02-2013, 07:12 AM
kev313 kev313 is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerome W View Post

I do not take anything against Shindo generally. I initiated a lot of curiosity and desire to discover Shindo because I have had both Shindo and other very popular brands here like Mc and ARC AT THE SAME TIME AT HOME in direct A/ B comparisons and because I am using Shindo in a " non authorized " way with Wilson speakers ( As your friend Art Dudley does BTW...) I expressed my feelings and thoughts with honesty and without any diplomatic considerations for all my friends having the same or equivalent gear that I had.
Still, I keep my freedom to say that the way Shindo himself organized the distribution of his products (including the illegal importation in Europe by an official importer in Greece) and the way the importers and dealers share and keep informations between them and customers, all this contribute to the feeling of a clan if not a sect.

Since I don't belong to this spirit, I have my freedom of speech, which many owners deny to themselves, and I can understand why it seems to drive you nuts.
You do not have to do anything to join the clan : you're in the middle of it.

I know that Shindo is very stingy with words when it comes to give information to owners in the "Owner page " ( hard to call that a notice or a manual ) that comes with his gear but my point is just that if those connectors are specific and should be used only with SWC plugs, then it should be written in that page.

If your dealer and Jonathan took the time to give you this information, then it's all good for you.
Not all dealers say it. Period. Maybe because not all them believe it ?
Of course, Keith told me when I bought the Hommage T2. That was the first time I heard that.
But once again, this is not WRITTEN information.
You know what we say in France and in many other places in the world ? "Said and not written ? It means nothing".
If this information is true, it is an important information so it should be written. Period.

Once again, imagine the same situation with a regular ( I mean not a clan full of devotees-customers ) company selling goods and not mentioning by writing in the user manual that only one brand of connectors should be used with their gear. Let's say McIntosh or Denon or ARC or any company you want. And ask the owners how they would feel about that ? Very few would say " oh no worries. I'm ok since my dealer told me".

Not anyone has a dealer ( I have one and it is not grey market, and no I won't tell you who he is.....although you may consider than in Europe, all dealers are grey market ! ). You can also buy a product used my Apetite was bought here from Des.
Now imagine the scene ( I could make and should make a movie out of that ! ) :
" Brother, now that you are a member of our clan, I have some important things to tell you about this gear. They are so secret and so strange that no one had the courage to put them down on paper and no one will do it. This is the "oral tradition" and it is more important than the written one.... And so on and so on...."

All this is getting too funny so I have to stop here.
Oy. Where to begin? First of all, yes, we are all very impressed by your shining the light and standing up against the cult. That you invented.

You honestly believe that you criticizing Shindo "drives me nuts?" Brother, it's freaking electronics. Talking about my family would drive me nuts. I don't really have that kind of passion for electronic doo dads. Sure I like the gear, but wow, this is a symptom of your Shindo paranoia.

Symptom #2: you are using your Shindo in a "non-authorized" way. Ok. Lots of Shindo owners think Wilson speakers are lame. I happen to just think they are ugly. But not because I own Shindo. I also own Magico speakers and Jeff Rowland electronics. I hope my cult meetings do not conflict!

Also, not friends with Art. Seems like a cool guy though.

Back to driving me nuts and speaking my mind, since you asked in your crusade for truth and justice. Can Shindo be criticized? Sure - done it myself. On this issue? My opinion is that you are all worked up over nothing. This info is not hidden. If your dealer didn't mention it, bad job. Take it up with him. If someone didn't buy it from and dealer and didn't know because it isn't written down, well, too bad. Here let me shout it back at you: GO BUY FROM A DEALER. Shindo is well within their right to do whatever the heck they want. Enjoy your 1/2 off savings. Everything comes with a price tho.

I'll grant you that Shindo is a bit more atypical in their approach than ARC or McIntosh. But that's what you get if you want the gear. I happen to not like those other brands, so I play by the rules of the Shindo game.

So let me be more clear...I happen to think you are being a bit silly. A crusade? Shining the light? You realize we are talking about 1k cables right? That happen to be made of silver. What do you think the dealer gets from a sale. What do you think the importer gets? In the context if selling 10-20k preamps, for example, do you really think that anyone is going to make an obvious and easily discovered misrepresentation to earn $500 on a cable sale? That's not just bad business, it's bad economics.

Here is a cable controversy: I also happen to know a very nice person who is a Nordost dealer. Go find one and ask the cost on a pair Odins. Hint: you can cable your entire system with Shindo on the spread.

Audio - no shortage of crusades for the angry consumer. My position - you gotta make a living. If the consumer doesn't like it, he can pick another brand.

Last edited by kev313; 06-02-2013 at 10:40 AM.
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  #109  
Old 06-02-2013, 07:33 AM
kev313 kev313 is offline
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Also, I should add one final thought just so my loyalties, allegiances, and line of thought is clear: I enjoy lots of different kinds of audio gear. I enjoy the Shindo sound. I enjoy other presentations also. I am not married to anything but my wife. For this reason I am personally offended by the charge that I am a member of some secret club. It's just not how I roll, ok?

I can also add that I have communicated with people who have had criticisms of the brand that are grounded in reality and that I - having an opinion and not a team - have agreed with these people from time to time. I also have found that I have been contacted by a number of kooks, loonies, and wackos, who seem to want to criticize Shindo for general unfairness. The common theme with these people is that they seem to want to own Shindo, but not pay for it. There. I said it. I happen to believe that a counter sect exists. An underground revolution. Anti capitalists. They want to be a part of the secret society but believe that it should be free to the people. They criticize anything that looks like a policy from a dealer or importer or anything that goes to the question of the value of the Shindo product. But they all own Shindo (usually second hand) or want to. Draw your own conclusions.
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  #110  
Old 06-02-2013, 12:58 PM
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I'm not a Shindo owner anymore since my son was born. I feared for the safety of the gear and for him accidentally touching a glowing tube or pulling a speaker down on himself. So I have no bias here.

I wanted to comment that I was not aware of the switchcraft fragility concern either and it was not mentioned to me any time through my dealer. Granted I bought one pair of Shindo IC's right off the bat so maybe it was unnecessary to raise the issue but it would've been nice to know in the event I was a cable "wiggler" or if I wanted to A/B against something else. There has been no mention of this issue online or in print until this thread and the current issue of Stereophile where Art mentioned he's had to replace his female RCA connections multiple times due to the constant plugging/unplugging for reviewing gear due to this issue.

In hindsight, I do think this is something that requires more disclosure.

Anyway I'm not going to debate here but did want to share my experience.
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