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  #11  
Old 03-16-2017, 02:44 PM
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Thank you, vegaracer1. This project has been a fun ride, not least because the sonic results have exceeded expectations in this nest of multiple asymmetries and SBIR horrors. As noted earlier, being able to test various trap configurations with real-world product before having to commit to purchasing same has been indispensable, not only in determining what worked best in this particular space but also in obtaining spousal acceptance--and ultimately support--given freely because she was able to hear, and appreciate, the results right along with me.

As a postscript, I'd note that I went predominantly with 244s because--after developing a quick-and-dirty Excel spreadsheet that did the calculating for me--I determined that the room's length, width, and height produced room modes of 86, 103, and 147 Hz, all within the 244's spec'd effective capability.
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Bedroom: Aurender N150, TEAC UD-505 (AKM version), EMIA Cu Elmaformer passive line stage, conrad-johnson MF2500, Paradigm Studio 20 v5. Shunyata Delta D6, Altaira CG hub. Shunyata Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, Alpha USB, Alpha and Venom CGC/SGC. Wireworld Eclipse 8 interconnect & speaker cables. Stillpoints footers, Butcher Block Acoustics maple platforms. Stillpoints and GIK acoustic panels.

Home Office:Windows 11 PC/JRiver 31, TEAC UD-501, Luminous Audio Technology Axiom II Walker Mod passive, conrad-johnson Sonographe SA-250, Paradigm SE-1. Shunyata Hydra (Original Version), Venom 10 NR. Wireworld Eclipse 7 interconnects. Blue Jeans speaker cable.

Living-Dining Room: Windows 11 Laptop/JRiver 29, Oppo BD-83, TEAC UD-501 DAC, SOTA Sapphire TT, Graham Slee Era Gold V, Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh MR-77, c-j Sonographe SC-25, c-j MF2500, Paradigm SE-3. Wireworld 8 IC, Blue Jeans SC. Shunyata Hydra 8 v.2, Shunyata Delta NR, Venom NR. GIK 244 bass & scatter-plate panels.
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  #12  
Old 03-18-2017, 03:33 PM
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Default Better pictures

These shots of the reflection-point traps put them in better perspective. The covers are standard grey, and the seeming color differences in the right-side 244s don't exist, but are instead artifacts of the light hitting them when I took the photos.

Left side...



Right side...



Having had a brainchild about a perhaps better solution to the dresser-front reflection problem than an Afghan blanket, I've emailed Bryan Pape and will let you know the outcome.
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Jim


Bedroom: Aurender N150, TEAC UD-505 (AKM version), EMIA Cu Elmaformer passive line stage, conrad-johnson MF2500, Paradigm Studio 20 v5. Shunyata Delta D6, Altaira CG hub. Shunyata Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, Alpha USB, Alpha and Venom CGC/SGC. Wireworld Eclipse 8 interconnect & speaker cables. Stillpoints footers, Butcher Block Acoustics maple platforms. Stillpoints and GIK acoustic panels.

Home Office:Windows 11 PC/JRiver 31, TEAC UD-501, Luminous Audio Technology Axiom II Walker Mod passive, conrad-johnson Sonographe SA-250, Paradigm SE-1. Shunyata Hydra (Original Version), Venom 10 NR. Wireworld Eclipse 7 interconnects. Blue Jeans speaker cable.

Living-Dining Room: Windows 11 Laptop/JRiver 29, Oppo BD-83, TEAC UD-501 DAC, SOTA Sapphire TT, Graham Slee Era Gold V, Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh MR-77, c-j Sonographe SC-25, c-j MF2500, Paradigm SE-3. Wireworld 8 IC, Blue Jeans SC. Shunyata Hydra 8 v.2, Shunyata Delta NR, Venom NR. GIK 244 bass & scatter-plate panels.
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  #13  
Old 03-19-2017, 09:44 PM
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Next step, following an email exchange with a quick-responding Bryan Pape: Order a pair of 24"x24" 244s to hook over the dresser's top drawers, allowing them to be removed whenever we need access to the dresser's contents and re-installed for listening sessions.

I'd initially asked Bryan if 242s would suffice, but he indicated that 244s would be more effective in coping with the SBIR issues posed by the speakers' proximity to the dresser.

He also suggested that, given the height of my listening position, its relationship to the speakers' vertical axis, and the amelioration of SBIR by placing 244s over the dresser drawers, building taller speaker stands might not be necessary or desirable. Which saves me resources that can be devoted to building a lower-profile "flexy" equipment rack.

Another example of the quick and helpful customer service I've experienced with GIK.

I'll place the 244 order in about a week and then follow up here with pics and the sonic results.
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Jim


Bedroom: Aurender N150, TEAC UD-505 (AKM version), EMIA Cu Elmaformer passive line stage, conrad-johnson MF2500, Paradigm Studio 20 v5. Shunyata Delta D6, Altaira CG hub. Shunyata Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, Alpha USB, Alpha and Venom CGC/SGC. Wireworld Eclipse 8 interconnect & speaker cables. Stillpoints footers, Butcher Block Acoustics maple platforms. Stillpoints and GIK acoustic panels.

Home Office:Windows 11 PC/JRiver 31, TEAC UD-501, Luminous Audio Technology Axiom II Walker Mod passive, conrad-johnson Sonographe SA-250, Paradigm SE-1. Shunyata Hydra (Original Version), Venom 10 NR. Wireworld Eclipse 7 interconnects. Blue Jeans speaker cable.

Living-Dining Room: Windows 11 Laptop/JRiver 29, Oppo BD-83, TEAC UD-501 DAC, SOTA Sapphire TT, Graham Slee Era Gold V, Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh MR-77, c-j Sonographe SC-25, c-j MF2500, Paradigm SE-3. Wireworld 8 IC, Blue Jeans SC. Shunyata Hydra 8 v.2, Shunyata Delta NR, Venom NR. GIK 244 bass & scatter-plate panels.
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  #14  
Old 03-30-2017, 01:52 AM
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Default Treating the dresser...

Late today FedEx delivered a pair of 2'x4' full-range 244s intended to replace the 244s I borrowed from my main living-dining-room system to try out on the front wall of my bedroom system. Before I replaced anything, however, I opted to use one of the new 244s as a horizontal stand-in for the pair of 2'x2' 244s (I shorthand them as "224s") I've ordered to treat the massive reflective surface of the lowboy dresser positioned ("jammed" is more like it) between my Paradigm Studio 20s. This would allow me to get a feel for the extent, if any, of sonic improvement I could expect with the 224s in place.



The panel's trashy-looking "stand" is a temporary jury-rigged variable-height collection of wood scraps to be used until I build a pair of oak stands for the 224s. To minimize SBIR, I settled on a final height that puts the top of the stand-in 244 flush with the dresser's top.

I left the second "new" 244 out of the room entirely while I conducted listening tests. For the comparisons, I started by listening with the stand-in also out of the room and then in front of the dresser.

My first audition was a 24/176 file of Eije Oue conducting the Minnesota Orchestra in the third movement of Sergei Rachmaninoff's Symphonic Dances (Reference Recordings). Without the stand-in in place, the movement (in which Rachmaninoff bats the "Dies Irae" around in a variety of incarnations) sounded as I had come to expect with the bedroom walls and first and second reflection points treated--open, with a discernibly wide and deep soundstage, firm bass foundation, detailed mid and top end, good imaging, and good dynamics with nothing seemingly "glued" to the speakers themselves.

Now let's see what, if anything, happens with the stand-in installed. I click on the third movement again in JRiver, flop quickly onto my listening position on the bed...and WHAM! The presentation screams "palpable presence" with a more expansive soundstage with better-"lit" and -defined rear corners, more intra-soundstage "space" that translates into more-perceptible layering between orchestral sections, more liquid mids and highs, and bass definition that thumps the gut. The speakers have "disappeared" even more than before. OK, enough with the hyperbole. Let's just say I was floored and leave it at that.

For the next with/without comparison, I selected something from another Keith Johnson recording--"Beckus the Dandipratt" on the Malcolm Arnold Overture outing. Same outcome, except the venue is different, and that's immediately discernible.

Since I got off to a late start, I'll have to do more listening comparisons tomorrow. But it already seems clear that treating the dresser's reflective mass, especially given its proximity to the speakers, was the essential next step in getting the room "right."

(For those who wonder, BTW, why two 224s instead of a single 244 for the final configuration diagrammed below, it's a matter of livability. We still have to get into the dresser drawers regularly, and moving one 224 out of the way is...well, you get it.)



A big thank-you to Brian Pape for his guidance on this phase of the project. The 244 is the right way to go.

--Jim
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Jim


Bedroom: Aurender N150, TEAC UD-505 (AKM version), EMIA Cu Elmaformer passive line stage, conrad-johnson MF2500, Paradigm Studio 20 v5. Shunyata Delta D6, Altaira CG hub. Shunyata Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, Alpha USB, Alpha and Venom CGC/SGC. Wireworld Eclipse 8 interconnect & speaker cables. Stillpoints footers, Butcher Block Acoustics maple platforms. Stillpoints and GIK acoustic panels.

Home Office:Windows 11 PC/JRiver 31, TEAC UD-501, Luminous Audio Technology Axiom II Walker Mod passive, conrad-johnson Sonographe SA-250, Paradigm SE-1. Shunyata Hydra (Original Version), Venom 10 NR. Wireworld Eclipse 7 interconnects. Blue Jeans speaker cable.

Living-Dining Room: Windows 11 Laptop/JRiver 29, Oppo BD-83, TEAC UD-501 DAC, SOTA Sapphire TT, Graham Slee Era Gold V, Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh MR-77, c-j Sonographe SC-25, c-j MF2500, Paradigm SE-3. Wireworld 8 IC, Blue Jeans SC. Shunyata Hydra 8 v.2, Shunyata Delta NR, Venom NR. GIK 244 bass & scatter-plate panels.
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  #15  
Old 03-30-2017, 08:22 AM
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You wife is an angel of angels.

I am lucky I am allowed a Sonos Play:5 in our bedroom.

Hanging panels is out of the question.

Cool story.
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  #16  
Old 03-30-2017, 10:23 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by crwilli View Post
You wife is an angel of angels.
Yes, that she is, thanks.

--Jim
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Jim


Bedroom: Aurender N150, TEAC UD-505 (AKM version), EMIA Cu Elmaformer passive line stage, conrad-johnson MF2500, Paradigm Studio 20 v5. Shunyata Delta D6, Altaira CG hub. Shunyata Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, Alpha USB, Alpha and Venom CGC/SGC. Wireworld Eclipse 8 interconnect & speaker cables. Stillpoints footers, Butcher Block Acoustics maple platforms. Stillpoints and GIK acoustic panels.

Home Office:Windows 11 PC/JRiver 31, TEAC UD-501, Luminous Audio Technology Axiom II Walker Mod passive, conrad-johnson Sonographe SA-250, Paradigm SE-1. Shunyata Hydra (Original Version), Venom 10 NR. Wireworld Eclipse 7 interconnects. Blue Jeans speaker cable.

Living-Dining Room: Windows 11 Laptop/JRiver 29, Oppo BD-83, TEAC UD-501 DAC, SOTA Sapphire TT, Graham Slee Era Gold V, Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh MR-77, c-j Sonographe SC-25, c-j MF2500, Paradigm SE-3. Wireworld 8 IC, Blue Jeans SC. Shunyata Hydra 8 v.2, Shunyata Delta NR, Venom NR. GIK 244 bass & scatter-plate panels.
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  #17  
Old 03-30-2017, 10:45 AM
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One other takeaway from the overall room treatment scheme here is a significant broadening of the listening "sweet spot". While that was especially noticeable with the perceived expansion of the soundstage and increased articulation of its inner space after installing the "stand-in" 244, I suspect that killing reflections at rear-wall center with the 12"x48" Monster has a lot to do with it.

More listening due today, with a string quartet or two, jazz, massed choral, and maybe even some opera and Broadway on the roster. If anything "new" turns up during the auditions, I'll post my impressions.

A real fun ride. Especially since I can do it lying down on the job.

--Jim
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Jim


Bedroom: Aurender N150, TEAC UD-505 (AKM version), EMIA Cu Elmaformer passive line stage, conrad-johnson MF2500, Paradigm Studio 20 v5. Shunyata Delta D6, Altaira CG hub. Shunyata Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, Alpha USB, Alpha and Venom CGC/SGC. Wireworld Eclipse 8 interconnect & speaker cables. Stillpoints footers, Butcher Block Acoustics maple platforms. Stillpoints and GIK acoustic panels.

Home Office:Windows 11 PC/JRiver 31, TEAC UD-501, Luminous Audio Technology Axiom II Walker Mod passive, conrad-johnson Sonographe SA-250, Paradigm SE-1. Shunyata Hydra (Original Version), Venom 10 NR. Wireworld Eclipse 7 interconnects. Blue Jeans speaker cable.

Living-Dining Room: Windows 11 Laptop/JRiver 29, Oppo BD-83, TEAC UD-501 DAC, SOTA Sapphire TT, Graham Slee Era Gold V, Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh MR-77, c-j Sonographe SC-25, c-j MF2500, Paradigm SE-3. Wireworld 8 IC, Blue Jeans SC. Shunyata Hydra 8 v.2, Shunyata Delta NR, Venom NR. GIK 244 bass & scatter-plate panels.
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  #18  
Old 03-31-2017, 04:08 PM
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"You've finally achieved what you wanted to."

That's my wife's assessment after spending about an hour-and-a-half last evening listening to the bedroom system churn out everything from Bernstein (the Turtle Creek Chorale rendering "Make Our Garden Grow" from "Candide") to Brubeck ("Take Five") to Borodin (the Cleveland Quartet's take on his String Quartet No. 2's second movement ["Baubles, Bangles, and Beads", you know--it sounds much more compelling in its original scherzic incarnation]) to Hugo Friedhofer (the suite of his "The Sun Also Rises" on the Kenneth Wilkinson-engineered "Captain Blood" recording from the excellent 1970's RCA-released film score series conducted by Charles Gerhardt).

She's nailed it, seconding the impression I'd already taken away from the previous evening's audition and yesterday afternoon's follow-up listening session. Oh, she still shakes her head at the room's Stonehengian ambience. But she comprehends and appreciates the "why" of it, so I don't have to move anything so much as an iota. And she betrays no hint of "Do we really have to have those things in here?" So that could-have-been-a-nasty-issue is settled.

Just a couple of follow-up observations:

(1) What I noted earllier about the impact of virtually full room treatment continues to hold true. While recordings intended by the producing-engineering team to portray humongous venue scale do just that with an increased sense of intra-soundstage space as well as broader and deeper boundaries and better-"lit" rear corners, close-miked productions recorded in sardine-can venues remain close-miked productions recorded in sardine-can venues, the only difference being that they exhibit greater and more nuanced instrumental and vocal detail including attack and decay.

(2) Seconds before "The Sun Also Rises" suite ended, I was nearly lifted from my middle-of-the-bed slouch by a momentary very-low-end growl I hadn't heard before I put the "stand-in" 244 in front of the dresser. "What's that?" my wife asked. Maybe a big truck passing by on the street, I ventured (we experience that rumbling sensation here every now and then). So I replayed the last several seconds of the track. Thrice. KA-WHOOM! each time. Yup, it's in the score (and it belongs there, given the nature and flow of the suite's climax). What had been an indistinct, ignorable grunt suddenly had its own well-defined "I'm here!" personality. I didn't know the Studio 20's had it in them. And wouldn't have if I hadn't treated the dresser front.

Needless to say, I'm a more than happy camper.

--Jim
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Jim


Bedroom: Aurender N150, TEAC UD-505 (AKM version), EMIA Cu Elmaformer passive line stage, conrad-johnson MF2500, Paradigm Studio 20 v5. Shunyata Delta D6, Altaira CG hub. Shunyata Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, Alpha USB, Alpha and Venom CGC/SGC. Wireworld Eclipse 8 interconnect & speaker cables. Stillpoints footers, Butcher Block Acoustics maple platforms. Stillpoints and GIK acoustic panels.

Home Office:Windows 11 PC/JRiver 31, TEAC UD-501, Luminous Audio Technology Axiom II Walker Mod passive, conrad-johnson Sonographe SA-250, Paradigm SE-1. Shunyata Hydra (Original Version), Venom 10 NR. Wireworld Eclipse 7 interconnects. Blue Jeans speaker cable.

Living-Dining Room: Windows 11 Laptop/JRiver 29, Oppo BD-83, TEAC UD-501 DAC, SOTA Sapphire TT, Graham Slee Era Gold V, Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh MR-77, c-j Sonographe SC-25, c-j MF2500, Paradigm SE-3. Wireworld 8 IC, Blue Jeans SC. Shunyata Hydra 8 v.2, Shunyata Delta NR, Venom NR. GIK 244 bass & scatter-plate panels.

Last edited by jimtranr; 03-31-2017 at 04:11 PM. Reason: Typo
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  #19  
Old 04-04-2017, 07:47 PM
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Default OK, just one more post...

to show you the final configuration with what I call the 224s in place. They arrived this afternoon.



Quick listens to tracks from four different recordings indicate no significant differences from what I heard and reported on earlier with a single 244 installed horizontally in front of the dresser. Which means it's all good.

You'll note that I've separated the 224s so their outer edges are closer to "their" respective speakers. I'll probably "play" for a few days with that panel-to-speaker distance to see if there's any audible change in what I hear from a given recording.

One advantage of getting a pair of 224s that I hadn't thought of until today: Given their portability, I can easily take one out to the living-dining room and put it in front of the 40" flat screen whenever I want to listen "seriously" to the main system.
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Jim


Bedroom: Aurender N150, TEAC UD-505 (AKM version), EMIA Cu Elmaformer passive line stage, conrad-johnson MF2500, Paradigm Studio 20 v5. Shunyata Delta D6, Altaira CG hub. Shunyata Alpha XC, Delta NR v2, Alpha USB, Alpha and Venom CGC/SGC. Wireworld Eclipse 8 interconnect & speaker cables. Stillpoints footers, Butcher Block Acoustics maple platforms. Stillpoints and GIK acoustic panels.

Home Office:Windows 11 PC/JRiver 31, TEAC UD-501, Luminous Audio Technology Axiom II Walker Mod passive, conrad-johnson Sonographe SA-250, Paradigm SE-1. Shunyata Hydra (Original Version), Venom 10 NR. Wireworld Eclipse 7 interconnects. Blue Jeans speaker cable.

Living-Dining Room: Windows 11 Laptop/JRiver 29, Oppo BD-83, TEAC UD-501 DAC, SOTA Sapphire TT, Graham Slee Era Gold V, Ortofon 2M Black, McIntosh MR-77, c-j Sonographe SC-25, c-j MF2500, Paradigm SE-3. Wireworld 8 IC, Blue Jeans SC. Shunyata Hydra 8 v.2, Shunyata Delta NR, Venom NR. GIK 244 bass & scatter-plate panels.
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  #20  
Old 04-04-2017, 08:29 PM
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Holy smokes! I think I'd be talking 1 octave higher (conservatively speaking)! Now if there were a pair of SF Strads.....I'd suck it up.

Congrats! It's all about compromise, isn't it?
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