Things you do not like about Accuphase

[Dave_72]

Originally Posted by tp1

Fair enough , even if CES is also a trade show. I don't see any Accuphase backed displays at any of retail hi-fi shows I have attended - save perhaps something in a corner that a dealer brought with him.

The point being that they do not rely on advertising as much as other companies but in non-English speaking countries the Hifi press are still keen to review their products.

BTW, in Japan, the DP-720 won Stereo magazine's Grand Prix in 2013 ( what ever that means!)

Really. Not at Newport, Munich, or RMAF? I heard of them being there, or at least the dealers and distributors.

I agree about advertising other than their website(s) (one in English and one in Japanese) and such.

That's cool, I'm sure it's well deserved.

[Dave_72]

Originally Posted by tp1

The USA surprises me I must admit. The ability to buy direct from Japan is there, US import costs are relatively low yet people still pay off the wall prices.

Yeah, I don't get it, and maybe I never will. I'm not gonna go with the g word here, because that would be badmouthing.

[antipop]

Originally Posted by tp1

Fair enough , even if CES is also a trade show. I don't see any Accuphase backed displays at any of retail hi-fi shows I have attended - save perhaps something in a corner that a dealer brought with him.

The point being that they do not rely on advertising as much as other companies but in non-English speaking countries the Hifi press are still keen to review their products.

BTW, in Japan, the DP-720 won Stereo magazine's Grand Prix in 2013 ( what ever that means!)

In France, they attend all the shows including retail ones and you can see quite a few of advertisement in audio magazines here. I'm sure it must be true elsewhere.

Originally Posted by tp1

Asian Accuphase pricing closely follows the Japanese pricing because Asians will not put up with the BS from importers that we seem to. In the EU, things are worse because although they allow free trade within member countries, they have draconian measures in place to make sure everything imported outside the EU gets slugged duty, VAT and is not a pleasant experience.

The USA surprises me I must admit. The ability to buy direct from Japan is there, US import costs are relatively low yet people still pay off the wall prices. In Australia, the official price is high but due to the intense competition from Asian neighbours actual buying prices are reasonable.

Nope as I mentioned here before, VAT and duties are a poor excuse for explaining the difference. It is at least a third cheaper to import from Japan, pay all the duties and VAT than to buy locally... They are just pricing their wares to what the market can bear and people are buying them at the current price. As long as they don't want to expand and can sell their current production they are very happy with that.

And since when does intense competition equals higher prices ? This is bizarro economics ?

[Dave_72]

Originally Posted by antipop

In France, they attend all the shows including retail ones and you can see quite a few of advertisement in audio magazines here. I'm sure it must be true elsewhere.




Nope as I mentioned here before, VAT and duties are a poor excuse for explaining the difference. It is at least a third cheaper to import from Japan, pay all the duties and VAT than to buy locally... They are just pricing their wares to what the market can bear and people are buying them at the current price. As long as they don't want to expand and can sell their current production they are very happy with that.

And since when does intense competition equals higher prices ? This is bizarro economics ?

I'm not surprised that they do attend those shows. I had no idea about the advertising. Thanks for that.

I agree, taxes and duties are a poor excuse, especially here in the US where it's much cheaper than over there in France.

[antipop]

Originally Posted by Dave_72

I'm not surprised that they do attend those shows. I had no idea about the advertising. Thanks for that.

I agree, taxes and duties are a poor excuse, especially here in the US where it's much cheaper than over there in France.

Less taxes in the US but Accuphase is slightly cheaper here than in the US. But Esoteric is more expensive in France than in the US. The reason beats me.

[tp1]

Originally Posted by antipop

In France, they attend all the shows including retail ones and you can see quite a few of advertisement in audio magazines here. I'm sure it must be true elsewhere.




Nope as I mentioned here before, VAT and duties are a poor excuse for explaining the difference. It is at least a third cheaper to import from Japan, pay all the duties and VAT than to buy locally... They are just pricing their wares to what the market can bear and people are buying them at the current price. As long as they don't want to expand and can sell their current production they are very happy with that.

And since when does intense competition equals higher prices ? This is bizarro economics ?

It is important to understand who "they" are in the context of the discussion. Accuphase the compay does not as a rule advertise or attend trade shows. Accuphase importers can at their own discretion advertise , go to shows. In France you are seeing the activities of the importer actively marketing the products.

I never said VAT was the reason for higher prices in EU but rather the EU restrictive trade practices for non member countries discourages people to import goods direct. It will only be competition from parallel importing that will reduce prices. In the meantime, the importers can charge whatever the market will bear because there is no real competition in an economic sense to force prices down.

[tp1]

Originally Posted by antipop

Less taxes in the US but Accuphase is slightly cheaper here than in the US. But Esoteric is more expensive in France than in the US. The reason beats me.

Pricing in each country is at the sole discretion of the local importer. Accuphase supply at same prices to them as they do to Japanese dealers or better. USA importer is the middleman which adds another layer of profit margin when sold to dealers.

Importers like that are after the most money for the least effort, and are not about maximising market penetration etc.

[antipop]

Originally Posted by tp1

I never said VAT was the reason for higher prices in EU but rather the EU restrictive trade practices for non member countries discourages people to import goods direct. It will only be competition from parallel importing that will reduce prices. In the meantime, the importers can charge whatever the market will bear because there is no real competition in an economic sense to force prices down.

What are the EU restrictive trade practices you mention ?

To me, Accuphase is the one restricting trade to EU and imposes it goes through local dealers. Other companies don't have such restrictions. If I buy an iPhone in the US for example, I can have it repaired in France under warranty.

It is impossible to do such thing with Accuphase. If you send to repair an Accuphase not bought locally, you are refused the repair (and I'm not talking about the warranty, I'm mentionning ANY repair is impossible).

It is also true for other companies like Nikon or Canon because they have very wild pricing depending on the country.

Originally Posted by tp1

Pricing in each country is at the sole discretion of the local importer. Accuphase supply at same prices to them as they do to Japanese dealers or better. USA importer is the middleman which adds another layer of profit margin when sold to dealers.

Importers like that are after the most money for the least effort, and are not about maximising market penetration etc.

Accuphase is happy with the current situation. Otherwise, they'd allow direct import and they'd impose the sell price to their distributors.

I understand you're trying to protect Accuphase but they are not blameless here and the lack of transparency adds to the overall impression. This is a discussion that is happening on every forum. However, it has no impact on the quality of the product and the sound reproduced.

[tp1]

Originally Posted by antipop

What are the EU restrictive trade practices you mention ?

To me, Accuphase is the one restricting trade to EU and imposes it goes through local dealers. Other companies don't have such restrictions. If I buy an iPhone in the US for example, I can have it repaired in France under warranty.

It is impossible to do such thing with Accuphase. If you send to repair an Accuphase not bought locally, you are refused the repair (and I'm not talking about the warranty, I'm mentionning ANY repair is impossible).

It is also true for other companies like Nikon or Canon because they have very wild pricing depending on the country.

Seriously? It is very the essence of how and why economic blocs exist. In countries like Germany they take a hard line on all external imports and they check every private shipment in detail. They are not looking for potential threats like in the USA but they are enforcing their strict economic policy and investigate the imports beyond what other countries do. The allow no leeway in the valuations and will regularly contact foreign suppliers and request a range of paperwork to verify the numbers on the import declaration. If there are anomalies they can (and have) prosecuted the customers.

Now even with full compliance ( like we all do on this forum) the process is tedious, and notwithstanding the shipping , import duty, 19% VAT, custom charges , insurance etc, you can understand people's reticence to do it.

Originally Posted by antipop

Accuphase is happy with the current situation. .

They do not get involved in other countries affairs so the point is moot.

In terms of warranty, I have bought some ( not all) Accuphase gear in the past from Japan and have converted the voltage to local. I have never needed any work done on the equipment spanning 21 years with the brand-that is one reason I buy Accuphase! If a major event occurred, it would still be economical to send the unit to the Japanese dealer for warranty repair and return.

If its not under warranty, there are more highly competent technicians than you may think that are capable of repairing the unit.

[antipop]

Can you give us your relation to Accuphase and where you are since you seem to know so much about their practice ?