Opera and Choral?

[bart]

Originally Posted by ChrisAZ

All: So after all of this discussion (which I'm not trying to end by the way), I've come to a few realizations:

- From what I've seen, high resolution downloads of opera and choral works are almost non-existent. HD tracks nets me almost zero results (and what very little they have I'm not interested in) and while Linn Records lists 22 downloads for choral music, I didn't see much in the way of opera. For example, I searched "boheme", "traviata", "aida" and "butterfly" and didn't come up with any pertinent hits. More may be available outside of the US, but for US consumers there is very little available. So for us "computer audiophiles", not much out there that doesn't come from spinning media. (Note: Software from Amarra, Pure Music, etc., still seems to have to get the hang of "gapless playback" in any event so that we don't have pauses between sections of an opera).

- I recently bought a good turntable and slowly started rebuilding my record collection from scratch. A search of on line record stores such as Music Direct and Soundstage Direct netted similar disappointing returns to the download sites for new audiophile vinyl recordings of opera and choral. (Note: Analog vs digital sound issues aside, I'd prefer a download for opera (provided the gapless issue is rectified) so that I could sit and listen to the entire opera (or at least an entire act) without jumping up to flip the disc. I'm not being lazy - well maybe a little - I just don't want the experience interrupted).

- I live in Houston (the nation's 5th largest city) and I can count the number of vinyl record stores (including used vinyl) on one hand and the number of stores that sell decent turntables (excluding Magnolia) on two fingers, one of which appears to be on its last legs and the other now seems to be focusing on HT rather than music. The vinyl record stores are adequate on rock/pop, less so on jazz, blues and other forms of "popular" music, and abysmal for classical, opera and choral. So for classical/opera/choral vinyl, I'm apparently left to Amazon.com and searching yard sales, etc. Makes for some fun being a collector (although a PITA), and I do visit used record stores in other cities, but to me it is a sad commentary on the state of music.

- There are lots of classical/opera/choral CDs out there still but the number of CD stores is dwindling as iTunes takes over. Again, there are on-line vendors, but in any event I'd prefer if possible a better source than Redbook. And, again, when I download the CDs to my computer music server, I have that gapless playback issue.

- Finally that brings us to BluRay and SACD. I own some of each for music and they sound terrific in my HT. I will need, however, to get a player for my 2 channel music only system. Question is, do you all think that BluRay is the next thing to be replaced or that SACD - which has never had widespread public acceptance - will remain a viable source? I bought into Betamax and Sony's MiniDisc and am getting sick of finding my equipment and software becoming redundant after a couple of years. But that's the way of this hobby I'm afraid.

Bottom line is, while still available in some formats, good new recordings of Opera and Choral music seem to me to be almost an endangered species particularly as the CD is replaced in the market place by low-res iTune downloads. Question is, what does this mean for the sustainability of the art form itself since not many can, or can afford to, attend performances at the Met, Lyric Opera, etc?

Chris, check this site: SA-CD.net.
You'll see that for classical, SACD is alive and kicking.
An immense number of new releases and remastered albums appear every week. Often in 5.0 or 5.1 which adds to the experience.
These issues are very well taken care of, and usually even have the texts of sung performances.

I see that also a lot of Blu-ray audio only discs are being brought out.
And operas and concerts on Blu-ray video are ubiquitous. The additional advantage there is that you have subtitles, so that you can follow the story even better.

Good luck and happy listening!

[ChrisAZ]

Thanks Bart! I look forward to pouring over the titles.

[LordoftheRingsEE]

Originally Posted by ChrisAZ

All: So after all of this discussion (which I'm not trying to end by the way), I've come to a few realizations:

- From what I've seen, high resolution downloads of opera and choral works are almost non-existent. HD tracks nets me almost zero results (and what very little they have I'm not interested in) and while Linn Records lists 22 downloads for choral music, I didn't see much in the way of opera. For example, I searched "boheme", "traviata", "aida" and "butterfly" and didn't come up with any pertinent hits. More may be available outside of the US, but for US consumers there is very little available. So for us "computer audiophiles", not much out there that doesn't come from spinning media. (Note: Software from Amarra, Pure Music, etc., still seems to have to get the hang of "gapless playback" in any event so that we don't have pauses between sections of an opera).

- I recently bought a good turntable and slowly started rebuilding my record collection from scratch. A search of on line record stores such as Music Direct and Soundstage Direct netted similar disappointing returns to the download sites for new audiophile vinyl recordings of opera and choral. (Note: Analog vs digital sound issues aside, I'd prefer a download for opera (provided the gapless issue is rectified) so that I could sit and listen to the entire opera (or at least an entire act) without jumping up to flip the disc. I'm not being lazy - well maybe a little - I just don't want the experience interrupted).

- I live in Houston (the nation's 5th largest city) and I can count the number of vinyl record stores (including used vinyl) on one hand and the number of stores that sell decent turntables (excluding Magnolia) on two fingers, one of which appears to be on its last legs and the other now seems to be focusing on HT rather than music. The vinyl record stores are adequate on rock/pop, less so on jazz, blues and other forms of "popular" music, and abysmal for classical, opera and choral. So for classical/opera/choral vinyl, I'm apparently left to Amazon.com and searching yard sales, etc. Makes for some fun being a collector (although a PITA), and I do visit used record stores in other cities, but to me it is a sad commentary on the state of music.

- There are lots of classical/opera/choral CDs out there still but the number of CD stores is dwindling as iTunes takes over. Again, there are on-line vendors, but in any event I'd prefer if possible a better source than Redbook. And, again, when I download the CDs to my computer music server, I have that gapless playback issue.

- Finally that brings us to BluRay and SACD. I own some of each for music and they sound terrific in my HT. I will need, however, to get a player for my 2 channel music only system. Question is, do you all think that BluRay is the next thing to be replaced or that SACD - which has never had widespread public acceptance - will remain a viable source? I bought into Betamax and Sony's MiniDisc and am getting sick of finding my equipment and software becoming redundant after a couple of years. But that's the way of this hobby I'm afraid.

Bottom line is, while still available in some formats, good new recordings of Opera and Choral music seem to me to be almost an endangered species particularly as the CD is replaced in the market place by low-res iTune downloads. Question is, what does this mean for the sustainability of the art form itself since not many can, or can afford to, attend performances at the Met, Lyric Opera, etc?

Hi Chris,

I knew it! ...Right from the very beginning with your opening post.

Here's the way I see our world regarding Operas and Chorales (Human Music):

1. Live events, always best.
2. Life is short and changing rapidly; so might as well adapt to it the best we can. ...By following earlier advice from Julian and Kal.
3.* Me; go Blu-ray all the way for Operas {hi-rez audio (lossless) -> DTS-HD MA 5.1-channel surround sound, plus hi-def picture to go with it.} ...Like Bart, Kal, and Julian already mentioned. ...For me that's the best, at home, short of going out to the live Hall.
4. Multichannel Hybrid SACDs. ...To expand further the horizons. ...In what you're looking for.
5. Julian wrote a great post, regarding LPs (box sets). ...Just go out of your city, and hit new ones. ...& check the paper, regularly, for garage sales.

*** Chorales and Operas are the toughest musical genres to reproduce accurately in our homes; they truly need the very best mediums, and for me it's Blu-rays and SACDs.
...I truly believe that LPs (albums) are simply too limited; in real 'expansion', like high frequencies, low frequencies, dynamics (micro and macro), and simply inconsistent from the beginning to the end of the LP rotations. Plus, you CANNOT listen to an entire Opera (2 hours long or so) without getting up at least four times to do the stuff you have to do.

.===> Get into Blu.

[ChrisAZ]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRingsEE

Hi Chris,

I knew it! ...Right from the very beginning with your opening post.
.===> Get into Blu.

Another piece of equipment, 2 more formats, this process never ends and my wallet remains empty. So I may be slow on the uptake, but I just looked through what was available on BluRay for opera and SACD for choral and I graciously accept defeat - that is apparently the way to go (with vinyl when I can find it). Plus, I can always use the video of the blu ray or dvd for the TV I have in the listening room (even though that's not the main purpose, as it is in my HT room). So, bottom line, you see the gear I have in my listening room under my signature, what universal player should I get primarily for audio? Under $10K please, hopefully well under. I'm thinking Modwright Oppo BDP105 with tubes?

[LordoftheRingsEE]

-- Yeah, excellent choice; the Oppo 105, tubed ModWright, Bybee Music Rails, and with separate outboard power supply.

[bart]

Originally Posted by LordoftheRingsEE

-- Yeah, excellent choice; the Oppo 105, tubed ModWright, Bybee Music Rails, and with separate outboard power supply.

Excellent choice, but if you have a bit more cash to splash don't forget the Primare BD32:

Primare BD32 Blu-ray player review - Blu-ray Players

Primare BD32: streaming on the grand scale | gramophone.co.uk

And there is still the Ayre DX-5 too.

Ayre Acoustics DX-5 universal disc player | Stereophile.com

[LordoftheRingsEE]

The Primare is twice the price of the Oppo 105 ModWright tubed.
And the Primare looks like an Oppo 93 (based on). ...But without the two Reference ESS Sabre32 DACS; the Primare uses two Cirrus Logic DACs.

The Ayre is three times the price of the modified Oppo 105, and I bet that the mod 105 sounds better.
The Ayre is based on an Oppo 83.

[howiebrou]

Originally Posted by AudioNut

Howie, I recently bought a La Traviata BluRay (video) from La Scala, and was really surprised how much better the visual cues on screen made the opera sound.

If I close my eyes, the opera sounds, well, very good, but if I open them and watch the thing on my fairly big screen, WOW it sounds so much better.

Go Figure!

Julian

That's good to hear. Which performance was that?

I remember watching Angela Gheorgiu and her hubby Roberto Alagna in La Traviata on a big screen in a square in Covent Garden back in 1996 as a poor student. But the picnic, the booze made it very fun (a little bit like watching on the steps in Verona amphitheatre) and at the end they both came out of the Royal Opera House and did a sing song Brindisi with the crowd. Fantastic!

howie

[howiebrou]

Originally Posted by Still-One

Howie
It is not just Opera that is so difficult to reproduce on even the very best Hi Fi's. Any complex form of live music is but a mere facsimile of what we hear in an auditorium, theater, concert hall or stadium. That is why most "audiophile approved" recordings are usually simple vocals or contain a minimal number of instruments.

You're right there Jim but Opera being so raw and vulnerable, to me at least, makes it really difficult to reproduce

[howiebrou]

Originally Posted by AudioNut

Chris,

There are a number of folks here that appreciate and love opera and choral music. Looking through the various classical music threads here on AA, it becomes obvious that a lot of us actually listen to the stuff!

Note in the "what classical music are you listening to" thread, that new choral music seems to come along regularly - For example, Linn seems to issue new recordings often and I believe they have downloads available. (I buy SACD's and don't download)

I personally have several thousand opera and choral recordings on LP, many of which I bought long after they were released, many long after they were discontinued.

I used to frequent "used record stores", thrift stores, yard and garage sales, etc. and found that classical box sets were nearly always available in mint, never played, probably not even looked at, condition. And, Operas were always in near brand-new condition. The best thing about these sources was the fact that they would practically give the box sets/operas away just to get rid of them.

I still see stacks of records at Goodwill, Salvation Army, etc, and many box sets, including operas, are usually included in the $1.00/haul me away/ bins.

You say that you want to locate "audiophile quality" LP's. Please let me assure you that many, many of the original issue LP's from the mid 1950's through 1960's are hard to distinguish from the "remastered" versions (and are often actually better). Find RCA Living Stereo, Mercury Living Presence, London Blue Backs, and others, inspect the surfaces, clean them before you play them, and you will usually find that you have true audiophile quality LP's at a fraction of the cost of the re-released versions.

In the meanwhile, though, an OPPO player and a good selection of SACD's would be a really good alternative. Because I have so many LP's (14,000±) and storage has become a challenge, I buy mostly SACD's now and they are really good!

Good Luck!

Wanna be my agent??