Legacy Wavelet II

[SCAudiophile]

@mercury999 Additional thoughts on what you wrote below...

Given the few measures you included it seems you may have a larger area behind the seating position (depth) than I had in some of my rooms. What are the full dimensions of your room including ceiling height?

If you have the depth behind the listening position that seems to be the case I am going to suggest you wait for Wavelet II, break it in and then see where you are as the new DACs (24/192 and 32/384 capable versus the original 24/96) and DSP (64-bit versus prior 56) gave me alot better depth and imaging in and of themselves right after the Wavelet upgrade.

After Wavelet was fully broken in, I found myself spending a couple days tweaking the VALOR's position in all dimensions plus a few improvements in toe-in.

Wavelet II is a great upgrade; the extent of it was beyond what I'd already hoped for...

Happy to talk via phone some time as well...drop me an IM.

If you don't subscribe, you'll need to (and should) in order to IM.

[Mitchel]

Attention SCAudiophile, I have an Aeris plus Wavelet II on order. Can’t wait. At some point, would love to compare notes and discuss upgrades (e.g. LPSU). Keep posting!!!

[SCAudiophile]

Congratulations! What finish?

Happy to chat some time via phone, drop me an IM.

The 2 I would say are a must have are a good linear PSU and DC unbilical replacement. Thoughts and specifics are on this thread, and my system thread for starters.

Drop me an IM, we can hook up tomorrow (good for me) or later in the week (also good).

[Mitchel]

SCAAudiophile, would love to chat — lemme try to figure out how to send an IM on this Forum.

Am getting the Satin finish Rosewood with Black Pearl front baffle. Have been working with James Thompson here in LA. He’s a very good guy, and has been a pleasure to deal with. Very interested in hearing more about your experience with Aeris vs Valor. I’ll admit to being just a bit nervous about being tied to the Wavelet, but feel like the trade off will be worth it in my room (especially given my interest in the accurate reproduction of very deep bass content, e.g., Lizard Point on Brian Eno’s classic album, On Land.).

Hope to talk soon,

Mitchel

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by Mitchel

SCAAudiophile, would love to chat — lemme try to figure out how to send an IM on this Forum.

Am getting the Satin finish Rosewood with Black Pearl front baffle. Have been working with James Thompson here in LA. He’s a very good guy, and has been a pleasure to deal with. Very interested in hearing more about your experience with Aeris vs Valor. I’ll admit to being just a bit nervous about being tied to the Wavelet, but feel like the trade off will be worth it in my room (especially given my interest in the accurate reproduction of very deep bass content, e.g., Lizard Point on Brian Eno’s classic album, On Land.).

Hope to talk soon,

Mitchel

James definitely knows is business, the speakers and Wavelet incredibly well. You are definitely in good hands from a Legacy point of view.

That's a beautiful finish combination....congratulations!

I'm looking forward to the call.

[Rick U]

Congratulations Mitchel. You are going to be in bliss. Hope you have a comfortable sofa or chair because rediscovering your music will have you sitting there for hours on end. James is the greatest. You are in very good hands..

[MatthewB]

@ Mitchel - When I got the Aeris with Wavelet 1 a couple of years back, I ordered it as full 3-way active (so 3 pairs of XLR cables between Wavelet and Aeris). This turned out to be a very smooth sounding and forgiving system, where almost every LP of mine sounded great. With my old electrostatics, while a lot of them would sound good, there were a fair amount which didn't. Without the room correction of the Wavelet, the sound would bunch up behind the speakers for some LPs. Deep bass is something that the Aeris does very well. When I listen to some of Yosi Horikawa electronic music, I could feel waves of bass physically move towards me. When listening to Morcheeba BlazeAway, you hear bass that is vibrating. I just used a Cambridge Audio CXN2 as front end streamer (connected using SPDIF). You will, of course, need to experiment with toe-in to make it sound its best. While I did order my Valors with full active configuration, I have found that using a tube amp for upper mid bass / treble sounded much better. The Valors are a different beast. I tend to listen to the Valors at lower volume than the Aeris due to the way it presents sound. This is probably due to having the much larger driver surface area, where you get more of the air pressure feeling of being there than the Aeris. The Valors were also designed to try to recreate the sound vector field at the listener position.

[MatthewB]

@SCAudiophile - You mentioned in an earlier post about using an external DAC and pre-amp. I am kind of wondering what that can provide. I have been listening to both vinyl and well as digital. Both have the same sound stage size (depth, width, and height). I was comparing the Eurythmics I've got an Angel track with both digital and vinyl, and heard drums directly to my right of my listening position for both. It was a very strange sensation, where the sound isn't coming from anywhere near the speakers. The remaster for digital was definitely better than the original vinyl-to-digital. I remember seeing a comparison between the Linn Klimax DSM (digital) and the Linn Klimax LP12 (vinyl), where the conclusion was that the DSM was more silky and the LP12 was more liquid. In this case, you have one company trying to create the best product for both, but somehow turn out with different flavors. When I listen to new electronic music via streaming, it sounds fantastic. However, when I did a direct comparison of Dire Straits Telegraph Road earlier today, there was a difference between the two. Yes, digital seemed to sound more silky, and vinyl more liquid. While both had the same sound stage size, with vinyl the singer felt more 3D. I have heard some talk about tube sound being more holographic, which may be due to harmonic resonances. I am kind of wondering if there are resonances in the physical nature of a record player which causes this 3D aspect. With your experiments with different digital configurations, have you noticed this aspect of the singer being more 3D in some cases versus others?

[SCAudiophile]

Originally Posted by MatthewB

@SCAudiophile - You mentioned in an earlier post about using an external DAC and pre-amp. I am kind of wondering what that can provide. I have been listening to both vinyl and well as digital. Both have the same sound stage size (depth, width, and height). I was comparing the Eurythmics I've got an Angel track with both digital and vinyl, and heard drums directly to my right of my listening position for both. It was a very strange sensation, where the sound isn't coming from anywhere near the speakers. The remaster for digital was definitely better than the original vinyl-to-digital. I remember seeing a comparison between the Linn Klimax DSM (digital) and the Linn Klimax LP12 (vinyl), where the conclusion was that the DSM was more silky and the LP12 was more liquid. In this case, you have one company trying to create the best product for both, but somehow turn out with different flavors. When I listen to new electronic music via streaming, it sounds fantastic. However, when I did a direct comparison of Dire Straits Telegraph Road earlier today, there was a difference between the two. Yes, digital seemed to sound more silky, and vinyl more liquid. While both had the same sound stage size, with vinyl the singer felt more 3D. I have heard some talk about tube sound being more holographic, which may be due to harmonic resonances. I am kind of wondering if there are resonances in the physical nature of a record player which causes this 3D aspect. With your experiments with different digital configurations, have you noticed this aspect of the singer being more 3D in some cases versus others?

@MatthewB I am not going to tackle the topics of solid state and digital amps compared to tubes and vinyl & tape versus digital disc versus digital (file or stream) here as that would go way off topic and also evokes religious debates . As with anything in this hobby it's never as simple as A is better than B as a universal fact; it all comes down to recording source, method, mastering and/or remastering method, media quality, media stamping method and process, etc... There is material that sounds superior on one or another format depending on all those factors AND the execution of the system that is playing it back. Same for tubes versus the world of options...

No one size fits all answers exist to these questions, full stop. It all depends on many factors; anyone who tries to convince you otherwise has an agenda or issue of some form.

Wavelet (1 and 2) deliver great value to all levels of audio hobbyists; you can literally connect it to a streaming source of some form, your laptop, an uber service and you are "done" with playback chain prior to Wavelet in that it has a very good DAC section (with emphasis on the Wavelet II) that competes with alot of options out there, it has Room Correction executed by a killer 64-bit DSP (Wavelet II, version I is "only" 56-bit), Active Crossover and it has a decent volume control section. It sounds extremely good this way and someone fitting to a budget or a specific set of preferences that focus solely on streaming/server could be extremely happy just coming in through Wavelet digital inputs. The same is true by the way if you have a transport and spin discs; you can come out of that transport into Wavelet and it will serve as all 3+ devices (DAC, Room Correction and Active Crossover and Volume Control)

Now we get to the 'it depends' answer....

It also has analog inputs for those with DACs with volume control on its outputs, that are superior in sound to the one in the Wavelet (when it acts on an incoming digital signal), those with DACs and Passive or Active Preamps that are also superior those with Phono-stages and bespoke externally preamps that are superior in sound quality and finally those with either players or like me have separate transports, DACs (and clocks where applicable) and external preamps that produce a superior analog output.

Wavelet will then take in that superior analog waveform, and with a 64-bit ADC in the DSP take all that sound quality and detail and nuance in the music and use that as its input to the Room Correction algorithms and the rest will follow as normal except you skip the volume control in the Wavelet (as you've got a better one externally) setting the Wavelet to unity gain.

It depends because it will has to do with the sound quality, the sound signature and many other factors of what someone owns, someone likes or what they purchase downstream.

Can Wavelet eliminate all these boxes or not compel you to purchase them if you don't already have them? Yes, if you stream in via internet or from server/laptop. Does this sound extremely good? Yes,....better by far now wih Wavelet II's better DACs and DSP. Same answers for a transport (or anything that simply provides a digital input to Wavelet). It's an incredible value IMHO for the price charged....frankly in this crazy hobby, it still amazes me that it's "only" $5-6K.

Can the DAC in the Wavelet beat everything out there? Hell no....

Can the volume control in the Wavelet beat every SOTA passive preamp or linestage preamp? Hell no...

Does Wavelet seem to benefit from the best signal of any kind you can send it, i.e. the best digital or a better analog signal input from bespoke DACs, phono-stages, and preamp? Hell yes it does in my experience owning 3 different configurations over the years and currently that sound better when I use a better DAC and preamp externally.

It's also noticeable when I've upgraded preamp (3 different times, 1 time with each Wavelet set).

It's also noticeable when I've upgraded transport and DAC (2 different times).

Wavelet doesn't hide upstream improvements (or lateral moves or backward moves) just because it first it first does A->D on an incoming signal.

I was highly skeptical on this point many years ago before taking on AERIS with XILICA 4080 DSP and later Wavelet I (as first customer to use it). I was quite fearful that Wavelet would "muck" up the great analog outputs I had spent alot of time and money to get to. I think it's obvious that it never did that (or I wouldn't be on my 3rd active Legacy speaker config with Wavelet!).

Hope this helps!

[Mitchel]

@scaudiophile. Still anxiously awaiting arrival of the Aeris plus Wavelet II. In the meantime, thanks for the recommend on Yosi Horikawa — wonderful stuff. As a hardcore ambient and low bass guy, he hits a lot of my buttons, especially on the less rhythmic and less structured pieces. He is also featured on a number of compilations and EPs and those are some of my favorites. Really like the track Stars on the album Vapors.

Mitchel