It's Decision Time

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by Fbgbill

The 462 is a superb amp. I cannot speak as to how it will work with your speakers but I am sure it will. I only got rid of my 462 because I got the wild idea I wanted mono blocks and went with a pair of 611's. Hope you back is in good shape as the 462 is a heavy beast..!

Mechanics and leverage are your friends.

[dkorbal]

Originally Posted by FreddieFerric

That is an intriguing statement Charles. Can you expound on his theory with a bit more detail? I'm a bit baffled how 450 watts boils down to 50.

I’m also curious to hear more on this after searching internet for “Dan D'Agostino's SS 10% rule” and finding nothing.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by FreddieFerric

That is an intriguing statement Charles. Can you expound on his theory with a bit more detail? I'm a bit baffled how 450 watts boils down to 50.

Freddie, excellent question. First of all, I think you made the right decision regarding the 462 vs 1502 unless you had your heart set on the 1502. Why? Because of the problems inherent with tubes as chronicled in the previous comments. Tubes are not as reliable as transistors but transistors can also fail. Any tube amp needs reliable protection circuits and if they don't have them, you are taking a risk.

To answer your specific question. I have always considered a tube watt about 10X a SS watt. A well made tube power amp will not change in sound quality when it approaches clipping and when it clips it does soft clipping as opposed to the hard clipping of a SS amp.

In addition, a SS amp sounds its best when it is loafing and in some amps you get some class A at one or two watts. The Relentless is 100 watts class A but 1,500 watts class AB. So with this monster amp 99% of the time it will be operating in class A.

With a tube amp like the 1502 I think of it as operating in "class A" probably up to 175-200 watts/ch, since Mac always conservatively rates their tube amps.

There are many advantages of tube amps over SS. I personally have never liked them because of their unreliability. I have purchased a pair of 3500 MKII's. However, I will never sell my 1.25KW's for this reason.

However, I consider the 3500 the more powerful of the two amps (3500 MKII vs 1.25KW) as far as sound quality by a significant margin, since I will have the equivalent of 500 "class A watts". Again, when you read the description of the amp on the website, Mac says "conservatively rated at 350W/ch". My source at Mac says it will do over 500W/ch. The original did 550/ch even though it was rated at 350.

I would never use a tube amp for a sub. These arguments don't apply to subs.

Best

Charles

[dkorbal]

Thanks Charles. Appreciated.

[FreddieFerric]

Thanks for the input Charles. If this theory is true then 150 tube watts would equate to 1500 SS watts. That's enough to get me to cancel the 462 and order the 1502 instead.

Now you got me thinking again.

For the record I don't fear tubes at all and have no problem accepting the quirkiness that comes with them.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by FreddieFerric

Thanks for the input Charles. If this theory is true then 150 tube watts would equate to 1500 SS watts. That's enough to get me to cancel the 462 and order the 1502 instead.

Now you got me thinking again.

For the record I don't fear tubes at all and have no problem accepting the quirkiness that comes with them.

IMO, this theory is correct. However, I have never liked tube amps. I feel that Mac SS sounds "tubey" and I love my 1.25KW's. But the 1502 is in terms of sound quality by far more powerful than a 462. You need a 1.25KW to match it. Class A watts are extremely expensive. In many respects a 3500 MK II can match a Relentless at 100 watts class A. In general any extremely well made tube amp like an Audio Research will offer this advantage, IMO. But the trade off is reliability. I want to be able to come in, turn it on, and play music, not worrying about tube life or that I might have to turn it off for some reason. There are numerous practical reasons that I absolutely prefer SS over tube and with Mac SS you get a significant slice of tubes or pure class A. I am willing to give up that "little bit" for the practically of SS. And it sounds great, too.

Best

Charles

[nikto34]

FWIW, I use my MC275 MKVI everyday. I run it for 6-8 hrs, 5 days a week. Have done this now with COVID for almost two years. Knock on wood, but I have never had an issue. I turn it on, listen for the day, and turn it off. Sometimes I turn it on and off throughout the day if I am on calls. I know I will have to replace the tubes someday but am OK with this as it is part of owning tubes.
I don't listen at reference levels so it does not get driven hard.
I have a mix of vintage and new (mostly vintage) MAC solid state and tubes. Don't think you can go wrong either way. [emoji3] Don't stress too much on the decision and enjoy the music!

[Charles]

Originally Posted by nikto34

FWIW, I use my MC275 MKVI everyday. I run it for 6-8 hrs, 5 days a week. Have done this now with COVID for almost two years. Knock on wood, but I have never had an issue. I turn it on, listen for the day, and turn it off. Sometimes I turn it on and off throughout the day if I am on calls. I know I will have to replace the tubes someday but am OK with this as it is part of owning tubes.
I don't listen at reference levels so it does not get driven hard.
I have a mix of vintage and new (mostly vintage) MAC solid state and tubes. Don't think you can go wrong either way. [emoji3] Don't stress too much on the decision and enjoy the music!

nikto, you got a great amp! You are experiencing the beauty/quality of McIntosh!

Best

Charles

p.s. nikto, If Freddie didn't "stress" over this, it wouldn't be worth it, just not too much.

[nikto34]

Originally Posted by Charles

nikto, you got a great amp! You are experiencing the beauty/quality of McIntosh!

Best

Charles

p.s. nikto, If Freddie didn't "stress" over this, it wouldn't be worth it, just not too much.

Thanks! Yes, I have really been enjoying it!
Yes, a little in decision is always fun. Never know what you will find. [emoji3]

[Charles]

Originally Posted by nikto34

Thanks! Yes, I have really been enjoying it!
Yes, a little in decision is always fun. Never know what you will find. [emoji3]

nitko, I'm sure you have noticed that the sound quality does not change when you hit a full 75 watts. You get .5-90 watts of exactly uniform sound quality, whatever that quality happens to be, which in your case is excellent. This is not true in SS, unless it is class A, and real class A, not sliding bias or "trick class A" in SS. This is because in true class A the amp is 100% operating at idle or at full power. This is extremely expensive and heat producing but very rewarding sonically.

Best

Charles