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  #21  
Old 08-22-2020, 03:28 AM
Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Originally Posted by Crumhorn View Post
To answer your questions in order: The "disc clamp" that clamps the label side of the CD in the transport snapped completely off as the disc was spinning, jamming the mechanism & causing ancillary damage to the gears & other mechanical components of the transport. It wasn't pretty! There was nothing unusual about the CD I was playing, & I have been scrupulous about ensuring that every disc I play is in immaculate condition, so I am at a loss as to why this happened. I purchased the player in 2010, but it was a 2008 model.

If the DCS, MSB & EMM Labs players had been within my budget, I definitely would have considered them before the Marantz, & possibly the Esoteric. These days there are slim pickings for SACD players between $3,500 & $!3,000...

As for the Modwright mods, I have reached the (gasp!) age where reliability, low-maintenance, set-it-&-forget-it has to come first, over absolute sound quality. That is why I transitioned from an all-tube system to what I have now. All too often, I would forget to turn my tubed gear off after a listening session, sometimes returning from a week-long trip only to find it was still on, burning through the tubes & electricity. So a tubed 2nd-hand mod of an out-of-print model is the wrong road for me, no matter how good it sounds...

Yes, I completely agree that the DAC alone is no indicator of the sound quality of a player. And some components of all kinds possess a "magic" that allows them to transcend their age. But for most high-end companies, when comparing apples-to-apples, the DACs/players being made now, with newer, more powerful & sophisticated chip sets, are better than their predecessors.

As to the lack of a grounding pin in the Marantz units, I, too, wonder why. Neither their literature, or reviews, make any mention of it. Are they trying to avoid ground loops? Did the units sound worse when grounded? I can't imagine that omitting it saves them much money. But as to using aftermarket cords, the IEC socket is the standard 15-amp shape & size - it's just missing the ground pin. Any aftermarket cord should work just fine in terms of fitting the socket & supplying juice to the player. The only question is whether the sonic "sauce" of any particular cord would be compromised by the lack of the ground connection at the player end. I just started a new thread in the Shunyata forum to ask that question, as that is the PC I am currently using. I'll ask Shunyata the question by phone, if they don't answer it in the thread. Since the Denali power conditioner has a "Chasis Grounding System" built-in, I'll eventually run a wire to it from the Marantz & see what I think...


SOTA Cosmos TT (vacuum, Electronic Flywheel), SME V, Koetsu Rosewood Signature
Marantz SA-10 SACD player, Alesis ML-9600 mastering CD burner, Nakamichi 700 ZXE Cassette Deck
Pass Labs XP-15 phono stage
Pass Labs XP-30 (SS) & Hovland HP-100 (tube) preamps
Edge G8+ laser-biased monoblocks & Classé M-700 monoblocks
Rockport Atria & Infinity IRS Beta Speakers
Audience AU24 SX Phono cable, MIT Shotgun ICs, Shunyata Alpha SCs
Revelation Audio Labs 'Passage' CryoSilver Reference DualConduit DB-25 umbilical cables for Pass XP-30
Shunyata Denali 6000T power conditioner (on BBA platform), Shunyata Alpha NR, Delta NR, & Venom HC PCs. Also PS8 & 2 Venom Defenders.
Audio Magic Ultimate SHD Bees Wax Fuse, Synergistic Research Blue & Black fuses, Hi-Fi Tuning fuses
Klaudio LP200 ultrasonic RCM
I'm using all Shunyata Sigma power cables for all my components (Classe Omega Reference monoblock amps, Classe Omega Reference Mk iii linestage preamp, Cary Audio CD 306 SACD player) but all my components have three way prong AC inlets on them, unlike the Marantz. The Marantz only has two way prong AC inlet, so aftermarkets power cables with three prong female connector wouldn't fit into the two way prong AC inlet on the Marantz.
I'm using a 20 amp Shunyata Sigma power cable from my Shunyata Hydra power conditioner/distributor to the wall outlet.

IMO all Marantz Reference series products should have three way prong AC inlets on them. Even cheap Oppo players all have three way prong AC inlet on them. Even the lower end Oppo 203 ($600 original retail) has three way prong AC inlet.

I noticed you have the Classe M-700 monoblocks. I've never heard of the M-700 monoblock amps before. I know there are CAM-600 monoblocks, CAM-300, CAM-400, CAM-500, CAM-200 monoblocks but wasn't aware of the M-700 monoblocks. Did you mean the CAM-600 (M-600) monoblocks?
I had the Classe CAM-600 monoblocks before but have since upgraded to the Classe Omega Reference monoblocks and the Omega Reference are clear step up sound quality wise from the CAM-600 or any Classe Delta series amps with the exception of the new Delta Mono & Delta Stereo amps that were recently released. I've heard the new Delta Mono amps paired with their matching new Delta Pre stereo preamp driving the B&W 800 D3 before and sonically those new Classe Delta series gears are definitely much improved over their Delta series prodecessors and a class of its own, and sonically are bought closer to that of the long discontinued Omega Reference series amps & preamps or perhaps even better than the long discontinued Omega Reference series gears.
but the retail prices of these newly revamped Delta series gears have also gone up substantially compared to the previous Delta series gears.
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  #22  
Old 08-22-2020, 03:49 AM
Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Originally Posted by silversurfer6 View Post
We have sold a couple of SA-10 a few years ago and we never heard back. It is bulit like a tank. We represent Sound United in a coubtty far far away and I am extremely happy with their aupport.

Additionally I see Classe improving a lot. Can you imagine a classe av processor with The latest chips that SU has access to? And support by SU engineers.

If they buy B&W also they are becoming a strong force in all market segments.
I am a Classe owner. I own the Classe Omega Reference monoblock amps and the Omega Reference Mk iii linestage preamp in my dedicated 2ch setup. I love the Classe Omega Reference series gears and they are absolute step up performance wise from the Delta series gears with the exception of the new latest Delta Mono, Stereo & Pre that were recently launched.

In my home theater setup I still have the Classe SSP 800 av preamp processor paired with the Classe Sigma amp. The SSP 800 was/is a benchmark high end AV preamp optimized for both stereo and multi-channels. Its stereo & surround performances are spectacular and is one of the best sounding AV pre pro for listening to stereo music or when used as a stereo preamp, only bested by the Meridian Reference 861 v8 pre pro & the Krell Evo 707 pre pro and possibly the Theta Casablance IVa.

So far Classe has only launched new stereo gears and not sure if Classe will ever get around to making surround sound components in the near future. We shall see.
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  #23  
Old 08-22-2020, 12:32 PM
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Crumhorn Crumhorn is offline
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Just received from Caelin Gabriel himself, in the Shunyata forum: "The NR power cord and the Denali do not depend upon the safety ground wire for their operation and performance. The lack of a ground pin in your new component will not affect the benefits of the NR cable at all."
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  #24  
Old 08-22-2020, 12:59 PM
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Crumhorn Crumhorn is offline
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Originally Posted by Dilettante View Post
I'm using all Shunyata Sigma power cables for all my components (Classe Omega Reference monoblock amps, Classe Omega Reference Mk iii linestage preamp, Cary Audio CD 306 SACD player) but all my components have three way prong AC inlets on them, unlike the Marantz. The Marantz only has two way prong AC inlet, so aftermarkets power cables with three prong female connector wouldn't fit into the two way prong AC inlet on the Marantz.
I'm using a 20 amp Shunyata Sigma power cable from my Shunyata Hydra power conditioner/distributor to the wall outlet.

IMO all Marantz Reference series products should have three way prong AC inlets on them. Even cheap Oppo players all have three way prong AC inlet on them. Even the lower end Oppo 203 ($600 original retail) has three way prong AC inlet.

I noticed you have the Classe M-700 monoblocks. I've never heard of the M-700 monoblock amps before. I know there are CAM-600 monoblocks, CAM-300, CAM-400, CAM-500, CAM-200 monoblocks but wasn't aware of the M-700 monoblocks. Did you mean the CAM-600 (M-600) monoblocks?
I had the Classe CAM-600 monoblocks before but have since upgraded to the Classe Omega Reference monoblocks and the Omega Reference are clear step up sound quality wise from the CAM-600 or any Classe Delta series amps with the exception of the new Delta Mono & Delta Stereo amps that were recently released. I've heard the new Delta Mono amps paired with their matching new Delta Pre stereo preamp driving the B&W 800 D3 before and sonically those new Classe Delta series gears are definitely much improved over their Delta series prodecessors and a class of its own, and sonically are bought closer to that of the long discontinued Omega Reference series amps & preamps or perhaps even better than the long discontinued Omega Reference series gears.
but the retail prices of these newly revamped Delta series gears have also gone up substantially compared to the previous Delta series gears.
Dilettante – For some reason you don't seem to be hearing us on this subject. The power inlet on the Marantz gear is IDENTICAL to the grounded power inlets on your Classe gear, with the exception that the grounding pin is missing. The missing grounding pin IN NO WAY prevents any aftermarket grounded power cord, such as your Shunyata Sigmas, from being used. It simply doesn't connect to the ground in the cable. As you can see from my post above, Caelin Gabriel said that this would have no effect on the effectiveness of his cables. Whether the effectiveness of other cable brands would be compromised by the lack of the ground pin can only be answered by them. But as for fitting, ANY regular, grounded, 15-amp aftermarket power cord can be used like normal with the Marantz gear, & the Shunyata PCs will work just as well as they do in your Classe gear.

As to my Classe M-700 amps, they are a VERY old model – I think I already had them when I met my wife, & that's over 26 years ago! I bought them specifically to power the woofer towers of my IRS Beta speakers, which need a LOT of horsepower to sound good. As the name suggests, the M-700s output 700 wpc @ 8 ohms, 1,400 wpc @ 4 ohms, & over 2,000 wpc @ 2 ohms! They definitely get those woofers moving...

Last edited by Crumhorn; 08-22-2020 at 01:05 PM.
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  #25  
Old 08-22-2020, 02:03 PM
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bart bart is offline
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Originally Posted by Crumhorn View Post
Dilettante – For some reason you don't seem to be hearing us on this subject. The power inlet on the Marantz gear is IDENTICAL to the grounded power inlets on your Classe gear, with the exception that the grounding pin is missing. The missing grounding pin IN NO WAY prevents any aftermarket grounded power cord, such as your Shunyata Sigmas, from being used. It simply doesn't connect to the ground in the cable. As you can see from my post above, Caelin Gabriel said that this would have no effect on the effectiveness of his cables. Whether the effectiveness of other cable brands would be compromised by the lack of the ground pin can only be answered by them. But as for fitting, ANY regular, grounded, 15-amp aftermarket power cord can be used like normal with the Marantz gear, & the Shunyata PCs will work just as well as they do in your Classe gear.

As to my Classe M-700 amps, they are a VERY old model – I think I already had them when I met my wife, & that's over 26 years ago! I bought them specifically to power the woofer towers of my IRS Beta speakers, which need a LOT of horsepower to sound good. As the name suggests, the M-700s output 700 wpc @ 8 ohms, 1,400 wpc @ 4 ohms, & over 2,000 wpc @ 2 ohms! They definitely get those woofers moving...

Ditto here: I use a Wireworld power cable on my Marantz AV processor.
Works like a charm.
We own several Marantz products in our house. We love the brand.
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  #26  
Old 08-22-2020, 04:37 PM
Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Originally Posted by Crumhorn View Post
Dilettante – For some reason you don't seem to be hearing us on this subject. The power inlet on the Marantz gear is IDENTICAL to the grounded power inlets on your Classe gear, with the exception that the grounding pin is missing. The missing grounding pin IN NO WAY prevents any aftermarket grounded power cord, such as your Shunyata Sigmas, from being used. It simply doesn't connect to the ground in the cable. As you can see from my post above, Caelin Gabriel said that this would have no effect on the effectiveness of his cables. Whether the effectiveness of other cable brands would be compromised by the lack of the ground pin can only be answered by them. But as for fitting, ANY regular, grounded, 15-amp aftermarket power cord can be used like normal with the Marantz gear, & the Shunyata PCs will work just as well as they do in your Classe gear.

As to my Classe M-700 amps, they are a VERY old model – I think I already had them when I met my wife, & that's over 26 years ago! I bought them specifically to power the woofer towers of my IRS Beta speakers, which need a LOT of horsepower to sound good. As the name suggests, the M-700s output 700 wpc @ 8 ohms, 1,400 wpc @ 4 ohms, & over 2,000 wpc @ 2 ohms! They definitely get those woofers moving...
Got it now. Eventhough the AC inlet on the Marantz is missing ground pin but we can still fit in an aftemarket three way prong power cable. Thanks for clearing that out for me. Not sure why Marantz Reference series products have only two way prong AC inlet on them. At their price points they should have built a three prong AC inlet with ground pin.

But I already got the Cary CD 306 SACD player several months ago instead of the SA-10. It's too late now. I bought the Cary to replace my completely dead Classe Omega Reference CD/SACD player that I accidentally shorted it and was completely useless now. I'm thinking to move away from silver disc to download/streaming. Considering to get the Linn Klimax DS/DSM with the latest Katalyst DAC architecture. Heard one in all Linn Klimax setup/system and was hugely impressed. We'll see.

As to your old Classe M-700 monoblocks, do they run in class A mode?
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  #27  
Old 08-22-2020, 05:10 PM
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Crumhorn Crumhorn is offline
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Nope - class A/B only. 700 watts of class A would generate huge amounts of heat! (The IRS Beta woofer towers are nominally 4 ohms, so really 1,400 watts...)
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  #28  
Old 08-23-2020, 03:42 AM
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Originally Posted by Crumhorn View Post
Thanks. Given the rapid advances in DACs, I find it surprising that you think that the 12 year old SA-7S1 would sound better than the SA-10...


I agree that DACs have advanced, though some have retreated too! When I compared the SA-10 to my SA-7S1 side-by-side (somewhere on AA there is my short review) I preferred the SA-7S1.

The DAC may potentially be better, but the quality of the rest of the player comes into the equation too.
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  #29  
Old 08-23-2020, 05:24 AM
Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crumhorn View Post
Nope - class A/B only. 700 watts of class A would generate huge amounts of heat! (The IRS Beta woofer towers are nominally 4 ohms, so really 1,400 watts...)
I meant class A biased into AB. My Classe Omega Reference monoblock amps are class A/AB and are biased into class A for the first 50 watts.
The new Classe Delta Mono & Stereo amps are also class A/AB and are biased into class A for the first 35 watts @ 8 ohms.
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  #30  
Old 08-23-2020, 05:58 AM
Dilettante Dilettante is offline
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Originally Posted by rnrmf1971 View Post
Crumhorn,
You can use whatever power cable you want with the Marantz. I use 3 prong cables and they can certainly bring improvements. I'm using an Audioquest Dragon at the moment, and also have been using the Acrolink/Esoteric 7N-PC9700 and both bring significant gains in sound quality to my ears. Use the stock power cable to establish a baseline for comparisons.

With regard to suggestions about a Modwright Oppo, my experience was 180 degrees different. I'll never blow money on a modded unit from anyone, again. The stock 105 was way better than the Modwright version, for me. My lesson was just buy a better player to start.

I'm confident the Marantz would destroy both players given that I like the Marantz better than the Oppo UDP-205 which I greatly preferred over the BDP-105.

I listened to the stock settings for awhile, but eventually changed the settings to this:
headphone amp: OFF
Filter: 2
Dither: 1
Noise Shaper: 4th-1

I found this combo to give the best balance of focus, clarity, and musicality in my system.
I will have to disagree with you on the Modwright Oppo 105 vs stock 105. The Modwright 105 is night n day better than the stock 105, no comparison. I've heard them both side by side in the same system setup. I couldn't stand listening to the stock 105 for extended period, it sounded too digital for me. The stock 205 is a definite improvement over the stock 105 hands down but still could not compare to the Modwright 105/205 or the Marantz SA-10.
The stock Oppo 105 is a great bluray player when using HDMI out for bluray / DVD movie playbacks. I own one in my dedicated home theater setup system. The picture quality is top notch and is a very reliable bluray player. The 205 is even better plus you get the benefit of playing 4K UHD movie discs.

By the way, I noticed that you have the SA-10 and the PM-10 integrated in the same setup. How's the PM-10 integrated amp? I think the amplifier output stage is class D? The use a linear analog toroidal transformer power supply in the PM-10 is it just for the preamp section or for both the preamp & power amp sections?
I'm skeptical when it comes to class D amps when used for listening to music but I wouldn't mind class D amps for movies (home theater).

Last edited by Dilettante; 08-23-2020 at 06:02 AM.
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