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  #51  
Old 05-31-2020, 11:19 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by Apexorca View Post
Wow! No lack of bottom end. This must be awesome.
Congratulations.

A tip. Since Florian Schneider just passed away I'v been listening to Kraftwerk a lot lately. What comes to my mind is how careful they were to every sound. The structure and complexity of the lower end in their recordings are fabulous. Playing this loud with that great power from Thor's Hammer will be rewarding in your system.
You probably get temporary cardiac arrhythmia but it will be worth it.
/Carl
Carl, Thank you! Your system was one of my main inspirations to replace my Alexx. Your Fenice made me realize there was more to be had than my Alexx. But what? Then Wilson came out with the XVX. It actually suits my room better than any speaker I have ever had.

I'm going to try "Autobahn" and see what happens. Over the next year I'm going to consider SCA's suggestions concerning some better foundations for my amps. It would be very easy.

Best,

Charles

Carl, I have downloaded Autobahn from HD Tracks. It's coming across to me a beautiful instrumental album with excellent punchy bass. I don't have it turned up because the wife is downstairs and it's Sunday. One of the things I have really tried for recently is better balance with better sub integration and bass articulation/resolution. I have recently learned how to correctly phase my system and it has helped my integration tremendously. I now have a much smoother 40 and 50 Hz tones than previously where before I has a peak at 40 Hz. The XVX woofers although not massive have significant weight when called on. It's hard to challenge a Hammer with anything short of heavy sub 25 Hz bass or movie sound tracks like Aquaman. On this album the Hammer is kicking in a "massive" .12-1.2 watts and the XVX about 1.2 watts, but it's a very beautiful music. I can see I will be buying more of this music.

Best,

Charles

Just turned it up significantly. Now I'm at 12 watts XVX and about 1.2 watts Hammer. Beautiful music. Beautiful complex bass. Ill probably keep the volume here, it's about on 60%. Now I'm getting some impressive bass that puts the Hammer at 12 watts which is a lot for it because of its sensitivity. The music is beautiful. Not what I expected at all. Yes the Hammer is at 6-12 watts and the bass wonderful. But the whole range is wonderful top to bottom. Beautiful music. This is why you pay the big bucks, to hear sound like this. This is impressive sound top to bottom with a monster sound field. I can't stand more than 12 watts from XVX. The midrange of the XVX is a thing to behold and it really shines on music like this. In previous systems I could never get this type of mid clarity and resolution, except the Mac XRT 30 or Genesis II panels but both would literally take your ear off at these sound levels and be unbearable. Alexx mid and treble sound slightly dull and closed/recesssed compared to XVX. Treble on XVX more resolved, no question without harshness or grit.

At volume 60% the album is quite impressive. The engine moving across from right to left is a stunner. No harshness or boom/exaggeration but extreme clarity and resolution with good weight top to bottom. This is a balanced system, exactly what I'm looking for. Sound field is huge.

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 05-31-2020 at 01:26 PM.
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  #52  
Old 05-31-2020, 01:02 PM
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Charles your system is top shelf, of course. You NEED “top shelf” gear support [emoji41]. Don’t stop with the amps, make a comprehensive plan for your main gear rack. I’ve never used HRS but I’ve seen stellar recommends for their gear. Don’t know if Stillpoints are necessary with HRS but I personally could not recommend Stillpoints more highly. Phenomenal results with my McIntosh gear.
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Preamp: McIntosh C1100T/C1100C, McIntosh MX180
Amp: McIntosh MC611 (2), MC601 (3), MI254
Digital: McIntosh D1100, McIntosh MCT450, Meridian 808v6, Aurender N20, Aurender ACS10, Oppo 203
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Phono preamp: Simaudio Moon 610LP, 820S
Signal cables: WW Gold Eclipse 7 speaker cables; Shunyata Sigma v2 XLR (2); Sigma v1 XLR (2), Transparent Ref XL (MM2) XLR; WW Silver Eclipse 7 (4)
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Switch: Innuos PhoenixNet
Power: Audioquest Niagara 7000, Audioquest 5000, Audioquest Dragon, Hurricane PC, Shunyata Alpha HC, AQ NRG Edison outlets, (8) 20 amp dedicated lines, 125 amp subpanel
Speakers: Wilson Sasha DAW, Dynaudio Contour 30, Dynaudio Contour 25C
Subs: REL s/812 (6), REL s/510 (3)
Accessories: HRS M3X2 shelf (MT10), Stillpoints Ultra II v2 w/ bases (21), Ultra SS (12), Mini (12), LPi v1
Sound treaments: Artnovion
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  #53  
Old 05-31-2020, 01:04 PM
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Masterlu Masterlu is online now
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Originally Posted by j3brow View Post
Charles your system is top shelf, of course. You NEED “top shelf” gear support [emoji41]. Don’t stop with the amps, make a comprehensive plan for your main gear rack. I’ve never used HRS but I’ve seen stellar recommends for their gear. Don’t know if Stillpoints are necessary with HRS but I personally could not recommend Stillpoints more highly. Phenomenal results with my McIntosh gear.
Jason... I use Stillpoints on all my gear even when placed on HRS shelves. One can’t leave any stone unturned.
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FLORIDA
MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES
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MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
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  #54  
Old 05-31-2020, 05:49 PM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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Originally Posted by Charles View Post
SCA, Thank you for these thoughts. I share your concerns. I have had these concerns too. Problem is there "ain't" nowhere to run and and nowhere to go to use the old cliche. The setup is far from ideal but very few are. But how does it sound? Is the really low bass where there is significant air movement from the massive ports of the Hammer significantly compromised??

As best as I can tell the answer is NO. The backs amps are about 24" from the front baffle of the Thor. I could pull them out another 12" but I don't think it would affect the sound and would create a fall risk. Tripping on these amps would not be something I would want to experience.

The amps are very compact and I believe their surface area potentially obstructing air flow negligible but nevertheless real. You would have to be in the room and look at the actual setup to appreciated this statement.

I have thought that when Mac finally comes out with the 2.1K's, it will be very difficult to place them for the reason you mentioned.

I could place the left and right 1.25's between the Thor and the XVX and then pull out the center 1.25 a foot closer to me. Employ expensive acoustic isolation for the amps. This would solve the problem you mentioned. So it can be addressed and is IMO solvable.

Your thoughts have caused me to rethink buying the 2.1K's (when they finally arrive) and spend the money on acoustic isolation for the amps. The XVX and Thor are truly well serviced by the 1.25's. Certainly there is better amplification and sources than Mac but I will never change from Mac.

I really appreciate this post so much because it has caused me to consider what might be a significant improvement to my system. I think I could spend a few thousand (maybe even much less) on some better foundations for the amps and reposition them. The dealer would do this and it would be very easy. What would you suggest?

THANK YOU!

Best,

Charles
Hello Charles....glad to be of any help I can.

Ivan gave a killer prescription with HRS.

I would suggest something similar...

- follow Ivan's suggest for current amps, move the 1.25Kw amps back a bit

Then...

- find a rack, will be custom, with 6 legs (left, center of Hammer and right) triple wide, single shelf or 2 sections

- put Hammer OVER the 1.25 KW amps which will bring Hammmer driver on a horizontal line roughly at the midpoint of your bass drivers in the XVX

FWIW, i think you have enough vertical space to do this without interfering with your screen...

I think you get the idea...."might" also result in better alignment on wavelaunch of those frequencies in line with the XVX.

If you are experiencing great volume levels only driving the 1.25 KW at 12 to 20 watts, my humble suggestion would be hold on the 2.x KWs until you determine you'll actually use what they provide...

Drop me an IM anytime,..happy to talk about the "Hammer on a bridge" [emoji2]rack idea anytime.

How much does the Hammer weigh?

Last edited by SCAudiophile; 05-31-2020 at 05:56 PM.
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  #55  
Old 05-31-2020, 06:06 PM
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Masterlu Masterlu is online now
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https://www.wilsonaudio.com/media/30...ors-hammer.pdf

412 lbs
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Ivan
FLORIDA
MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES
CAPE COD

MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES

Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES
Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES
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  #56  
Old 05-31-2020, 06:12 PM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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Cool...no problem. The idea I mentioned is still very feasible...

Last edited by SCAudiophile; 05-31-2020 at 07:06 PM.
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  #57  
Old 05-31-2020, 06:25 PM
Levitator Levitator is offline
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Originally Posted by SCAudiophile View Post
Hello Charles....glad to be of any help I can.

Ivan gave a killer prescription with HRS.

I would suggest something similar...

- follow Ivan's suggest for current amps, move the 1.25Kw amps back a bit

Then...

- find a rack, will be custom, with 6 legs (left, center of Hammer and right) triple wide, single shelf or 2 sections

- put Hammer OVER the 1.25 KW amps which will bring Hammmer driver on a horizontal line roughly at the midpoint of your bass drivers in the XVX

FWIW, i think you have enough vertical space to do this without interfering with your screen...

I think you get the idea...."might" also result in better alignment on wavelaunch of those frequencies in line with the XVX.

If you are experiencing great volume levels only driving the 1.25 KW at 12 to 20 watts, my humble suggestion would be hold on the 2.x KWs until you determine you'll actually use what they provide...

Drop me an IM anytime,..happy to talk about the "Hammer on a bridge" [emoji2]rack idea anytime.

How much does the Hammer weigh?

Great advice Mark!
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  #58  
Old 05-31-2020, 07:06 PM
SCAudiophile SCAudiophile is offline
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Great advice Mark!
Thanks Mate!
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  #59  
Old 05-31-2020, 10:53 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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I think one thing that has come out of all this is that I don't need the 2.1K's. For the main equipment rack, I'm going to leave it alone. It is well out of the sound field and the Dragon power cords and IC's have been carefully measured. This cannot be changed. Far too expensive.

In the future there may be something to do with the Hammer and the amps. But the setup is so natural and logical. Most importantly, it works. It delivers the bass. One never knows until you actually listen to the system what you have. I think raising the Hammer more above the amps maybe 6-10 inches a good idea and a possibility to consider in the future. I will also carefully consider Ivan's sage advice.

I had a small peak at 40 Hz that I have eliminated. My low end is simply excellent now so its going to take some listening before I make any changes. In a lot of systems the subs are close behind the mains blowing directly into the ports of the mains, etc. My amps are so far in front of the ports of the Hammer and the obstructing surface area so small.... but there could be some improvement with these highly regarded suggestions. I think I've got about 90% out of what my room will allow at this point. So I'm going to reload next year. Done for this year. Going to listen to the music.

The main thing right now is that there's no way I'm going to bite on a 2.1KW until I get this all figured out. Probably never. I think the path forward lies with these suggestions made in this thread, not a 2.1KW.

With the peak in my system on a lot of albums it was pleasing. However, some with clearly excessive bass to begin with, the bass was too heavy. Now the peak is gone. I'm looking for seamless bass not excessive bass. I just can't criticize the bass right now. Maybe I'll hear something in the future.

Again, thanks so much for the comments and advice. It is food for deep thought.

Best

Charles

ps. I have downloaded Radioactivity. I really like this type music. But on my system while there are some very interesting bass notes that I really like, it's the overall presentation of the sound. The bass itself seems no more special than the mid and treble. It's great sound top to bottom. If you haven't tried this music (Kraftwerk) try it. The sound field is monster. I'm going to download all their albums. On volume level 50% which is the natural level for me the Hammer never exceeds 2-3 watts and the XVX 4-5 watts. It's surprising how much sound my system will produce with very low wattage. I'd love to hear Carl's system. He would probably like his Fenice better. I might too. For that matter all your systems.

Best again,

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 06-01-2020 at 12:20 PM.
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  #60  
Old 06-01-2020, 12:33 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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This am I put the Wilson test CD on and played heavy 50, 40, 30, 25, and 20 Hz warble tones. Volume level was 50%! It was loud. The room shook. Wattage was about 60 watts continuous. Maximum port air was at 25 Hz and a little bit of chuffing noise was noted with ears beside the port. However, the amount of air flow that I could feel at the port entrance was insignificant and this was with my hand 2-3 inches away. So the rear of the amps which are 22" away could not be interfering with air flow IMO. This is not an issue. In addition, the amps remained totally inert. Zero vibration, absolutely zero. I could not discern any woofer distortion. The cones remained well behaved. I won't be doing this test again, I assure you. It was brutal but necessary in order to convince me I had no urgent problem in need of immediate correcting.

I noted again the elimination of the 40 Hz peak that previously had always been present in my system. Beginning with the 50 Hz warble there is now a noticeable increase in loudness/weight and it remains very smooth all the way down to 20 Hz. It is quite amazing how the proper phasing of my Hammer has improved my bass. Previously, I had never understood how to use my phase control to tailor my bass.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 06-01-2020 at 12:54 PM.
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