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  #321  
Old 04-18-2022, 12:10 PM
Charles Charles is online now
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prepress, I like everything about the 3500's and sonically they continue to improve. Little indistinct bass notes have become more distinct than with the 1.25. Increased bass resolution and resolution across the entire frequency spectrum has been a surprise while maintaining a smooth relaxed non analytical presentation. There's nothing "hyper" or exaggerated sonically about these amps. They are neutral with a gorgeous soundstage.

I have read a lot about the 1502. it sounds like it is cut from the same cloth and that one could reasonably expect a similar sonic presentation.

I don't think this is criticism of the 1.25. Rather I think that to achieve this kind of performance one might have to go with something like the darTZeel NHB-468 Monoblock, reviewed in the latest issue of TAS. These amps go for 238K/pair, are SS, and are 625 watts into 4 ohms, very similar to a 3500 in power.

The sonic presentation of the 1.25KW is superior. Unless you are willing to pay 238K, I think they have reached to the limit of SS. The 1.25 is not hyper, exaggerated, or analytical in any way. It's a great SS amp, but not the best, but close.

Which would I personally choose, the DarTZ's vs the 1.25's. Definitely the 1.25's. I like Mac. I like the reliability, the appearance, the meters, and its sonics. I was completely satisfied sonically with the 1.25's. I have no doubt I could go back to them and enjoy them tremendously.

When the 3500's appeared it gave me opportunity to experience the ultimate for an insignificant amount of money. I have been extremely fortunate. I think it the best tube amp on the market and now believe tubes are sonically superior to the very best SS.

Again, if I had to choose between only a 3500 vs a 1.25, it would be the 1.25's. If I have a failure, within 15 minutes the 1.25's will be powered up and I'll be quite happy.

I'm writing this because if you are considering Mac SS amp you should not let my positive comments on tubes deter you. Mac SS is smooth with plenty of bass, space, resolution, and a beautiful wide and deep soundstage. You are not going to surpass it unless you are ready to pay out the huge bucks. Even then, I'd personally prefer the Mac because of all the intangibles you get with Mac, the absolute price notwithstanding.

Best

Charles
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  #322  
Old 04-18-2022, 08:53 PM
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Congratulations Charles on discovering (or rediscovering) the magic of modern McIntosh tube amps. May they serve you well!
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  #323  
Old 04-19-2022, 02:53 PM
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My little bookies are getting anxious for the MC1502. In the meantime the MC275MkVI is doing its best to satisfy the wants/needs of my monitors. Glad to hear you are pleased with the 3500s Charles
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  #324  
Old 04-21-2022, 02:33 AM
Charles Charles is online now
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Listening to the Paul Simon Graceland CD, I'm throwing in the towel for superlatives. The 3500's leave me on the floor, honestly.

Best

Charles

__________________________________________________ _
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: Wilson Active XO Stereo Electronic Crossover; 3 AS125 custom made McIntosh amps stands
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport. Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic. WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection. New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes. Thor is now off my floor. MC3500MKII mono block amps (2).
Amps: McIntosh MC3500MKII mono blocks (2), McIntosh MC1.25KW’s (3). All amps set on floor on custom made granite slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC); custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; MR87 tuner; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.

Last edited by Charles; 04-21-2022 at 02:50 AM.
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  #325  
Old 04-21-2022, 09:24 AM
PeterMusic PeterMusic is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
Listening to the Paul Simon Graceland CD, I'm throwing in the towel for superlatives. The 3500's leave me on the floor, honestly.

Best

Charles

__________________________________________________ _
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: Wilson Active XO Stereo Electronic Crossover; 3 AS125 custom made McIntosh amps stands
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport. Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic. WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection. New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes. Thor is now off my floor. MC3500MKII mono block amps (2).
Amps: McIntosh MC3500MKII mono blocks (2), McIntosh MC1.25KW’s (3). All amps set on floor on custom made granite slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC); custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; MR87 tuner; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
One of my faves! I love the deep textured bass. It's awesome on my "Mini Charles" System (see signature, haha), I can only imagine on your beast.
Please play Mother and Child Reunion for me
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  #326  
Old 07-17-2022, 09:45 AM
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FreddieFerric FreddieFerric is offline
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Hi Charles. Did that pair of McIntosh amp stands ever get delivered?
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  #327  
Old 07-17-2022, 07:38 PM
Charles Charles is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieFerric View Post
Hi Charles. Did that pair of McIntosh amp stands ever get delivered?
Freddie, I cancelled my order. I felt raising the center three amps might block the air flow from my Thor. I had waited 5 months and heard they were being re-engineered. I lost interest.

Best

Charles
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  #328  
Old 07-29-2022, 10:28 PM
LewL LewL is offline
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I upped my order from a pair of MC611s to 3500s based on this thread. Luckily my dealer had both in stock, so no waiting. Just need my cabinet and electrical wiring upgraded before the dealer brings them over to install along with a C2700 and an Esoteric N-01XD. With Clarus Crimson Mk II cabling. (Upgraded from a Peachtree Nova fed through my iPhone.). Hopefully will see some sonic improvement with this change.😉. Still need to upgrade my speakers. Currently have Harbeth SHL5+XDs. Baby steps.
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  #329  
Old 07-30-2022, 12:54 PM
Charles Charles is online now
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Originally Posted by LewL View Post
I upped my order from a pair of MC611s to 3500s based on this thread. Luckily my dealer had both in stock, so no waiting. Just need my cabinet and electrical wiring upgraded before the dealer brings them over to install along with a C2700 and an Esoteric N-01XD. With Clarus Crimson Mk II cabling. (Upgraded from a Peachtree Nova fed through my iPhone.). Hopefully will see some sonic improvement with this change.��. Still need to upgrade my speakers. Currently have Harbeth SHL5+XDs. Baby steps.
Lew, absolute congrats! You will not be disappointed. My opinion is that these amazing amps just happen to be the finest tube amps in today's world. I believe they are the most powerful and are more powerful than many SS "super amps". I have always believed in the Agostino Rule: unless an amp is truly pure Class A, for a SS amp to sound its best, it should operate at no more than 10% its rated power.

For a 1.25KW, this would be a maximum of about 140-150 watts, which is adequate for most source material. So since the 3500 will do over 500 watts, it is a considerably more powerful amp. SS amps have a tendency to sound hard when pushed, whereas tube amps remain sonically consistent at clipping.

IMO, the exception to the Agostino Rule is the Class-A SS amp. Many amps that purport to be "true Class-A" aren't. The Accuphase A-250 is true Class-A. But look at the wattage you get: 100 watts at 8 ohms true Class-A. Pass Labs XS300 is another true Class-A amp: 300 watts at 8-ohms, weighs in at 306 lbs/ch and 900 wats power consumption when not in idle. There are other Class-A amps. These amps, IMO, do not become hard or change sonically when pushed to clipping.

This is why "tube watts" are considered more powerful than "solid state watts". However, even most true Class A amps become Class-AB as they approach clipping and thus avoid clipping.

The weakness of virtually all tube amps is an ultimate lack of power. Ultimately watts really are watts as demonstrated by the below pic. No tube amp other than a MC3500 will play this cut at a high level. It will blow them up. But any high-powered SS amp will easily handle the drum on this Wilson CD: Winds of War and Peace: Liberty Fanfare. Now if you are foolish enough to play this through your system at a high level, be prepared to blow up your amps and speakers. :yes

It is impossible to catch the maximum needle excursion, but it certainly is over 400 watts. Volume 68% D-1100. It is loud. Many SS amps will buckle with this drum. No tube amp other than a MC3500 will handle this drum. It will blow it up, literally.



Best

Charles

p.s. the VAC Statement 452i Monoblock rated at 450w/ch, clips at 183 watts into a 4-ohm load. A pair will run you 150K. Reviewed by MF, 4/18, Stereophile:

"VAC specifies the Statement 452 iQ's maximum power when used as a monoblock as 450W into 4 ohms (23.5dBW). With our usual definition of clipping, which is when the output's percentage of THD+noise reaches 1%, the VAC clipped at 235W into 8 ohms (23.7dBW, fig.4, footnote 1). However, less power was available into 4 ohms at 1% THD+N: 183W (19.6dBW, fig.5), though 370W was available at 3% THD+N (22.7dBW) and 410W at 10% THD+N (23.1dBW)."

Many tube amps will only barely meet their published specs. Going back to the 1960's, all Mac tube amps are guaranteed to meet or exceed their published specs for the life of the amp.

Last edited by Charles; 07-30-2022 at 01:42 PM.
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  #330  
Old 07-30-2022, 02:34 PM
LewL LewL is offline
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Thanks Charles!
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