Pro and Cons of adding Subs

[JoeN]

Originally Posted by grandee14

I have a different view of subs. I have PMC speakers and I do not feel I need to influence bass response. The designer has gone to a lot of effort with the x/o network and cabinet structure to ensure the sound is 'realistically' balanced. To add a sub from a different manufacturer with different sound characteristics which might also cause certain frequency cancellations is a risky move.

Thanks. I’m not considering adding a set of subs because of any perceived or actual deficiency in our speakers - Magico M3s. These have 3 X 7” Graphene Nano-Tec Bass … Unbelievable speed and accuracy - it’s excellent sound.

However, while the right set of subs can go lower in the bass, the main advantages for me I expect to be improved system dynamics, soundstage depth, and spaciousness. Most of all a set of subs - properly set up - can help tame a room.

This is an interesting article and one of the reasons I’m seriously thinking in this direction.

SUBWOOFERS IN STEREO SYSTEMS

[grandee14]

The article reinforces my thinking and experience. In my case Peter Thomas got it right, no need for me to try and prove him wrong.

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by grandee14

I have a different view of subs. I have PMC speakers and I do not feel I need to influence bass response. The designer has gone to a lot of effort with the x/o network and cabinet structure to ensure the sound is 'realistically' balanced. To add a sub from a different manufacturer with different sound characteristics which might also cause certain frequency cancellations is a risky move.

Which ones? I've had 2-3 PMCs over the years and the bass was consistently unsatisfactory.

[grandee14]

Kal, as you know major recording studios around the world have chosen PMC speakers. Their experience is different than yours.

[Kal Rubinson]

Originally Posted by grandee14

Kal, as you know major recording studios around the world have chosen PMC speakers. Their experience is different than yours.

Yes, I am well aware of that because it was part of what motivated me to try them. OTOH, my observations are supported by measurements, if that matters.

[FreddieFerric]

Originally Posted by JoeN

Agreed. We are having architectural plans drawn up for a new dedicated listening room. We will be using vicoustics and some other stuff to help the room, special sheet rock, green glue, etc.

With this being the plan, I'd hold off on any major new purchases until that room is ready for occupancy. Just my 2 pesos.

As far as subs are concerned, I used a pair of SVS subs back when I had a pair of Magnepan 1.7's with their anemic bass response. The subs filled in the sonic picture and made the system livable.

With these Canton's though, I have no interest in subs. All that said, I'm not a bass-head, so cracking the foundation or rattling pictures from the walls doesn't turn me on. The Canton's will do those things on bass heavy tracks. As Paul Klipsch correctly opined: We live in the midrange.

[JoeN]

Thanks. It’s probably two years for the new room to be built, so I’m not going to wait.

I’m not getting subs to improve the base though. I already have three 7” bass drivers in each speaker that sound amazing. Subs though help round out your room. They impact the soundstage depth and spaciousness. While I will get a lower bass response, the aforementioned reasons are more my goal.

Originally Posted by FreddieFerric

With this being the plan, I'd hold off on any major new purchases until that room is ready for occupancy. Just my 2 pesos.

As far as subs are concerned, I used a pair of SVS subs back when I had a pair of Magnepan 1.7's with their anemic bass response. The subs filled in the sonic picture and made the system livable.

With these Canton's though, I have no interest in subs. All that said, I'm not a bass-head, so cracking the foundation or rattling pictures from the walls doesn't turn me on. The Canton's will do those things on bass heavy tracks. As Paul Klipsch correctly opined: We live in the midrange.

[Charles]

JoeN, I would contact Magico. I have had lots of experience with subs. As far as integration I believe you will experience significant problems because of the size of your woofers. Have you considered the crossover frequency between you new subs and your mains? None of these subs will be as quick as your mains. The higher the crossover frequency the more apparent this will be. Your bass will be different but will it be the bass you have now? Unless you are dissatisfied with it, wait until your new room when you will have more space, then add Magico Q-subs which will provide you bass as quick as you have now.

Best

Charles

[JoeN]

Many thanks. I (or my dealer) definitely will contact Magico … Magico Bass is awesome. But as stated earlier subs help make the room sound better. For me it’s not really about the lower bass (it’s already well defined and clear) but the improvement of the room itself. Can’t do new room treatments - WAF.

Magicos paired with REL G1s are awesome. Heard them. I’m sure they would be great with either the REL No 25s or 212SXs as well. Unfortunately Magico subs would be too large to fit in our room. The S Subs would fit, but IMO not a good sub for Magicos M series speakers.

The new room - if we do it - will be incredible. Knowing me it will have even larger speakers, and I may make it a TT only room. Put three TTs in it, larger speakers, etc.

Still a lot of planning to do, but I desire to maximize the sound in our Great Room. I have to go listen to more subs. I’m looking for someone else who has Magicos and REL combo as well.

Also I may upgrade my amps as well. Three under consideration, Gryphon EVOs, EMM MTRX2s, and the Pass 600.8s. All mono set ups. I spoke with Nelson of Pass Labs the other day and he actually suggested the 600s over his XA pure Class A series “for my application” (really hot in FL). A new amp may change my mind about a sub - as the EMMs (1000 w per channel vs my present 520 w …) made the bass come alive even more .. So, some huge decisions to make.

Thanks again.

Originally Posted by Charles

JoeN, I would contact Magico. I have had lots of experience with subs. As far as integration I believe you will experience significant problems because of the size of your woofers. Have you considered the crossover frequency between you new subs and your mains? None of these subs will be as quick as your mains. The higher the crossover frequency the more apparent this will be. Your bass will be different but will it be the bass you have now? Unless you are dissatisfied with it, wait until your new room when you will have more space, then add Magico Q-subs which will provide you bass as quick as you have now.

Best

Charles

[Charles]

Joe, if not a Q-sub (s), I would go with the new SSsub. 40.4K$/pr. sealed all aluminium dual 12's built to Magico standards, which are simply higher than any of the aforementioned subs. Regardless of your intentions, I can tell you that you buy subs for bass, not room enhancements which are real, but not primary. Expensive, no doubt but probably on par with a Q-sub. When you upgrade to your new room, dual Titans and M6's which would be awesome beyond belief. I's stick with Magico. As you know, I own an XVX and Thor. I would never dream of veering away from Wilson. I hope it works out for you. You have an awesome system with great potential.

Best

Charles

p.s. these new Magico subs would look amazing in matching black.