Is the GAT / ET5 hard on tubes?

[bgiliberti]

Originally Posted by plurn

From your earlier post, was there any reason you chose to raise this question quoting my post specifically, as opposed to any of the other posts from other people talking about old tubes? From your earlier post it kind of sounded like you found something about the situation I presented that made you think "aha - those might be counterfeit". If that is the case, what was it about my situation that made you think that at the time? I expect I have since allayed your fears about this for my purchases, since I provided more information on the integrity of the supplier in my last post.

Or do you think all claimed "new old stock" tubes from all suppliers are counterfeit (or used)? From your last post, it is not clear but it kind of sounds like that is what you might be getting at when you say "the term NOS at this point strikes me as total joke. Like Phillips and Telefunken did not see the transistor age coming, and kept producing warehouses full of old tubes that audiophiles are now paying a fortune for? Give me a break."

Anthony

Although I responded to your post, I was speaking generally. Also, if you paid a fair price, and the tubes sound great, who cares? I certainly don't think "all" of the NOS tubes are counterfeits or knock-offs, 95% would be more like it. However, if someone who retired from Phillips or Telefunken in 1964 posted that his retirement party was held in a warehouse filled with millions of obsolete tubes, I would lower my estimate to 80%. Have at me NOS valve distributors...

[plurn]

Originally Posted by bgiliberti

Although I responded to your post, I was speaking generally. Also, if you paid a fair price, and the tubes sound great, who cares? I certainly don't think "all" of the NOS tubes are counterfeits or knock-offs, 95% would be more like it. However, if someone who retired from Phillips or Telefunken in 1964 posted that his retirement party was held in a warehouse filled with millions of obsolete tubes, I would lower my estimate to 80%. Have at me NOS valve distributors...

Thanks for clarifying your point of view.

Anthony

[turntable]

Originally Posted by bILLwOJO

Wow, those things really eat tubes. They should have had a way to lower the filament voltage down to 6.1V or so. The old Dynaco preamps came with Telefunken tubes from the factory. Yea, I know, not in the same league as A CJ preamp but they ran the filaments a little low and most of these can be found with the original tube compliment still in them. Heck, when I found my crusty MC40 monoblocks they still had most of the original tubes.
CJ should come up with a solution and fix all of these at no charge. A lot of coin for a flawed design.

BillWojo

Certainly not a flawed design. One of the best sounding preamps ever made and still is.
The trouble is current 6922 production is shite unfortunately.

I have had my Telefunken tubes for over two years and no further problems and it sounds like a dream.

[microstrip]

Originally Posted by plurn

Further to my earlier post http://www.audioaficionado.org/conra...tml#post802534 I decided to stock up on the Philips PCC88 tubes while they are still relatively cheap at the place I buy them. These should last me a while:



For my current usage of about 2700 hours per year, I estimate these 30 tubes will last at least 16 years in my ET5. Could end up less than that or a lot more then that depending on various factors. Hopefully most of them are as good as the four that I originally purchased.

Does anyone know if these are the same as the one CJ supplies for the GAT? They have factory code DJER.

What follows is probably of no interest to anyone but you never know.

Researching these tubes I have the following information:

- from the factory code DJER, DJ = PCC88. Don't know what ER stands for.
- They are not from CJ or from Upscale Audio. Upscale says the following about their Philips PCC88 which looks the same "This tube has Philips Holland parts, and the associated sound. They were assembled in the Ei factory according to the small etched codes on the glass.". They don't say what the code is.
- Another site worthpoint had very similar looking Philips PCC88 for sale in the past and their ones had factory code "DJER @ 4I". Their description said "Philips PCC88 Produced in Sept. 1964 for Philips by EI (Electronska Industria, Jugoslavia)". My ones just have factory code DJER rather than "DJER @ 4I". Perhaps from the "4I", the 4 indicates 1964, and the "i" indicates september? If that is the case then I suspect something in the "ER" from DJER indicates that they were produced by EI.

So I don't know if that means mine were made by EI or somewhere else. I suspect they were made at EI with Philips Holland parts since all the others seem to be. If they were made in Holland I would think they would say "Made in Holland". That is just a guess.

Anthony

I also bought a large stock of the same type PCC88 Philips with codes DJER 4F and 4G. I have measured about 10 and they are in general low noise and both triodes are matched in gain and DC - an important parameter as the sections work in parallel in my LP275s. From these 10 only one had one noisy triode in the low frequencies - it is now burning-in for a few days, as I have found that some tubes that are initially noisy become silent after 50-100 hours burn-in.

Measuring a few used noisy ECC88/6922 I have found that their triodes were significantly unbalanced. Probably tubes in these conditions will ear out much faster as the tube current does not split equally between the triodes.

[plurn]

Originally Posted by microstrip

I also bought a large stock of the same type PCC88 Philips with codes DJER 4F and 4G. I have measured about 10 and they are in general low noise and both triodes are matched in gain and DC - an important parameter as the sections work in parallel in my LP275s. From these 10 only one had one noisy triode in the low frequencies - it is now burning-in for a few days, as I have found that some tubes that are initially noisy become silent after 50-100 hours burn-in.

Measuring a few used noisy ECC88/6922 I have found that their triodes were significantly unbalanced. Probably tubes in these conditions will ear out much faster as the tube current does not split equally between the triodes.

That is good that they have acceptable measurements and that a good proportion of them are usable. Thanks for reporting the codes. I would think 4F = 1964 June, and 4G = 1964 July.

You have inspired me to check the codes on my tubes more closely. I have found that on some of them, the second row of codes is just barely visible and almost readable with a magnifying glass and a flashlight.



Under the DJER row, mine seem to have a row with three characters starting with a partial circle character, followed by 4H. I think the partial circle character must be this one for "Elektronski Industija, Nis, Yugoslavia":



I would think the 4H would be 1964 August.

Anthony

[keef]

Rekindling an old thread about ET5 and other CJ preamps. Just ordered another Philips PCC88 from CJ after my Seimans ECC88 6DJ8 became noisey/crackly.

The Seimans actually made it about 2 1/2 years or close to 900 hours or so I estimate. Good sounding and tough tube, sonically more of a front row perspective with a nice top end and great clarity without sounding harsh.

I think the Philips is more balanced top to bottom. Maybe a bit warmer than both the Seimans and EH. The EH doesn’t last any time in my ET5 and it is a shame because I like it better than the Philips.

I noticed CJ now offers the Philips, EH, and Gold Lion now. Anyone had any luck with a hopefully newer batch of EH?

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by keef

Rekindling an old thread about ET5 and other CJ preamps. Just ordered another Philips PCC88 from CJ after my Seimans ECC88 6DJ8 became noisey/crackly.

The Seimans actually made it about 2 1/2 years or close to 900 hours or so I estimate. Good sounding and tough tube, sonically more of a front row perspective with a nice top end and great clarity without sounding harsh.

I think the Philips is more balanced top to bottom. Maybe a bit warmer than both the Seimans and EH. The EH doesn’t last any time in my ET5 and it is a shame because I like it better than the Philips.

I noticed CJ now offers the Philips, EH, and Gold Lion now. Anyone had any luck with a hopefully newer batch of EH?

Nope. I never liked the EH tubes very much. They always sound somewhat clinical and sterile to me in my LP70S. I much preferred the Ediswan 6922s, but you can't get those anymore, so I'm using Gold Lion, which I also like. My CT-5 required 6N30Ps, and IIiRC, only Sovtek makes those, so I was stuck with that specific tube. I used a mil-spec 6N30P-DR, which was a more durable tube than standard specification.

[keef]

Thanks Puma Cat, I may try Gold Lions in the future. Curious to see how long the Philips last this time around. I also have another 1960’s NOS Seimans ECC88 on the way.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by keef

Thanks Puma Cat, I may try Gold Lions in the future. Curious to see how long the Philips last this time around. I also have another 1960’s NOS Seimans ECC88 on the way.

FWIW, I had one of the Philips ECC88s let go on me on the C-J ART150 I had in for review. There was "Pop!" out of the left channel, and then a continual buzz. Jeff sent me some Slovakian tubes to use for the remainder of the review period.

FWIW, I've never had any issues with tubes, either input stage tubes, nor output stage tubes on my LP70S.

Though I've been exclusively using a Constellation Inspiration integrated () since the ART amp went back to C-J, so tubes aren't an issue of any kind at the moment.

[Oddiofyl]

I had really good luck with two tubes in my Classic 2SE.... genuine NOS 6h23neb Volkshod Rocket and Gold Lion 6922. Both lasted long and sounded great. JJ 6922 are good if you can get one that is quiet.

I recently pulled the CJ out of service. I'm on the fence about keeping it or my Sonic Frontiers SFL-1 as a back up..

I used some 60's Mazda 6922 for a short time , sounded best but those tubes didn't last very long. The CJs are tough on tubes , but they sound great ......