Is the GAT / ET5 hard on tubes?

[bILLwOJO]

Wow, those things really eat tubes. They should have had a way to lower the filament voltage down to 6.1V or so. The old Dynaco preamps came with Telefunken tubes from the factory. Yea, I know, not in the same league as A CJ preamp but they ran the filaments a little low and most of these can be found with the original tube compliment still in them. Heck, when I found my crusty MC40 monoblocks they still had most of the original tubes.
CJ should come up with a solution and fix all of these at no charge. A lot of coin for a flawed design.

BillWojo

[Coppy]

Originally Posted by bILLwOJO

Wow, those things really eat tubes. They should have had a way to lower the filament voltage down to 6.1V or so. The old Dynaco preamps came with Telefunken tubes from the factory. Yea, I know, not in the same league as A CJ preamp but they ran the filaments a little low and most of these can be found with the original tube compliment still in them. Heck, when I found my crusty MC40 monoblocks they still had most of the original tubes.
CJ should come up with a solution and fix all of these at no charge. A lot of coin for a flawed design.

BillWojo

So Bill... most of us have no issues with the tubes. Not had any issues with the last three or four of their best Premier models. My GAT has been perfect with a number of different sets for many years. Is your advise to them based on owning c-j equipment or are you just trying to give them advise?

[bILLwOJO]

Don't own any CJ gear, wouldn't mind trying one of there preamps on my Mac tubes though. I'm just surprised if it wasn't just one batch of bad tubes that a company like CJ didn't offer a fix. Running the heaters at that elevated voltage will cause problems with tubes. I'd want to see the heater voltage between 6.1 and 6.2 volt's for long life.
Not bashing CJ gear, like I said, I'd love to try one of the preamps, even an older one, I have heard nothing but good reports on them.

BillWojo

[mfoley3]

Originally Posted by bILLwOJO

Don't own any CJ gear, wouldn't mind trying one of there preamps on my Mac tubes though. I'm just surprised if it wasn't just one batch of bad tubes that a company like CJ didn't offer a fix. Running the heaters at that elevated voltage will cause problems with tubes. I'd want to see the heater voltage between 6.1 and 6.2 volt's for long life. Not bashing CJ gear, like I said, I'd love to try one of the preamps, even an older one, I have heard nothing but good reports on them. BillWojo

I've owned CJ gear for almost 4 decades now and haven't had any problems, other than a couple of aggravating ground loop hums and two tube failures (Premier 16LS2 - 6922 & Premier 11A - 6550). I currently have a GAT pre and ART monoblocks, they have been perfect in all regards. I also have two close friends that are long term CJ users and neither has had problems other than one blown 6550 power tube.

I know nothing about amplifier circuitry and their various operating parameters, so I have no comment regarding heater voltage. However, from my experience, I'd rate CJ gear, overall, as being exceptionally reliable.

[Coppy]

+1

[plurn]

Further to my earlier post http://www.audioaficionado.org/conra...tml#post802534 I decided to stock up on the Philips PCC88 tubes while they are still relatively cheap at the place I buy them. These should last me a while:



For my current usage of about 2700 hours per year, I estimate these 30 tubes will last at least 16 years in my ET5. Could end up less than that or a lot more then that depending on various factors. Hopefully most of them are as good as the four that I originally purchased.

Does anyone know if these are the same as the one CJ supplies for the GAT? They have factory code DJER.

What follows is probably of no interest to anyone but you never know.

Researching these tubes I have the following information:

- from the factory code DJER, DJ = PCC88. Don't know what ER stands for.
- They are not from CJ or from Upscale Audio. Upscale says the following about their Philips PCC88 which looks the same "This tube has Philips Holland parts, and the associated sound. They were assembled in the Ei factory according to the small etched codes on the glass.". They don't say what the code is.
- Another site worthpoint had very similar looking Philips PCC88 for sale in the past and their ones had factory code "DJER @ 4I". Their description said "Philips PCC88 Produced in Sept. 1964 for Philips by EI (Electronska Industria, Jugoslavia)". My ones just have factory code DJER rather than "DJER @ 4I". Perhaps from the "4I", the 4 indicates 1964, and the "i" indicates september? If that is the case then I suspect something in the "ER" from DJER indicates that they were produced by EI.

So I don't know if that means mine were made by EI or somewhere else. I suspect they were made at EI with Philips Holland parts since all the others seem to be. If they were made in Holland I would think they would say "Made in Holland". That is just a guess.

Anthony

[bgiliberti]

Originally Posted by plurn

?... If they were made in Holland I would think they would say "Made in Holland". That is just a guess.

What would be your guess if they were counterfeits made in China?

[plurn]

Originally Posted by bgiliberti

What would be your guess if they were counterfeits made in China?

I don't understand your question/insinuation. Perhaps you can rephrase it? To try and answer it as is, my guess would remain the same, as I would not know they were counterfeit would I. If I did know they were counterfeit, I would not need to guess.

Anyway you seem to be insinuating they are counterfeit. They are not. Really does anyone try and counterfeit low cost relatively unknown PCC88 tubes? They counterfeit well known high priced Bugle Boy and Telefunken 12AX7 and 6922.

The ones I purchased are from a respected long established (operating since 1946) professional supplier in Europe. Who knows - maybe they purchased them direct from Philips in the '60s. The chance of them being counterfeits from China would be near zero. In any case, even if they were counterfeit (they are not) they are quiet, perform well, and last a much longer time than Electro Harmonix 6922 tubes in my ET5 - so what would be the problem there?

Anthony

[bgiliberti]

Originally Posted by plurn

I don't understand your question/insinuation. Perhaps you can rephrase it? To try and answer it as is, my guess would remain the same, as I would not know they were counterfeit would I. If I did know they were counterfeit, I would not need to guess.

Anyway you seem to be insinuating they are counterfeit. They are not. Really does anyone try and counterfeit low cost relatively unknown PCC88 tubes? They counterfeit well known high priced Bugle Boy and Telefunken 12AX7 and 6922.

The ones I purchased are from a respected long established (operating since 1946) professional supplier in Europe. Who knows - maybe they purchased them direct from Philips in the '60s. The chance of them being counterfeits from China would be near zero. In any case, even if they were counterfeit (they are not) they are quiet, perform well, and last a much longer time than Electro Harmonix 6922 tubes in my ET5 - so what would be the problem there?

Anthony

I'm merely raising a question, not accusing. However, the Chinese (as well as others ) will counterfeit anything that can be profitably counterfeited. It's hard for westerners to appreciate just how low wages are in China; when a country's labor and manufacturing costs are as low as theirs are, there is plenty of money to be made pumping out even the most common tubes, as long as naive audiophiles will pay even a little extra for the bogus NOS label. Are they bad tubes? Not necessarily, and we all know that both the Chinese and the Russians make some fabulous tubes. However, the term NOS at this point strikes me as total joke. Like Phillips and Telefunken did not see the transistor age coming, and kept producing warehouses full of old tubes that audiophiles are now paying a fortune for? Give me a break.

[plurn]

Originally Posted by bgiliberti

I'm merely raising a question, not accusing. However, the Chinese (as well as others ) will counterfeit anything that can be profitably counterfeited. It's hard for westerners to appreciate just how low wages are in China; when a country's labor and manufacturing costs are as low as theirs are, there is plenty of money to be made pumping out even the most common tubes, as long as naive audiophiles will pay even a little extra for the bogus NOS label. Are they bad tubes? Not necessarily, and we all know that both the Chinese and the Russians make some fabulous tubes. However, the term NOS at this point strikes me as total joke. Like Phillips and Telefunken did not see the transistor age coming, and kept producing warehouses full of old tubes that audiophiles are now paying a fortune for? Give me a break.

From your earlier post, was there any reason you chose to raise this question quoting my post specifically, as opposed to any of the other posts from other people talking about old tubes? From your earlier post it kind of sounded like you found something about the situation I presented that made you think "aha - those might be counterfeit". If that is the case, what was it about my situation that made you think that at the time? I expect I have since allayed your fears about this for my purchases, since I provided more information on the integrity of the supplier in my last post.

Or do you think all claimed "new old stock" tubes from all suppliers are counterfeit (or used)? From your last post, it is not clear but it kind of sounds like that is what you might be getting at when you say "the term NOS at this point strikes me as total joke. Like Phillips and Telefunken did not see the transistor age coming, and kept producing warehouses full of old tubes that audiophiles are now paying a fortune for? Give me a break."

Anthony