AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > Manufacturers Forums > McIntosh Audio

McIntosh Audio A Tradition of Excellence

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #51  
Old 11-26-2021, 10:51 PM
audioquest4life's Avatar
audioquest4life audioquest4life is online now
Senior Member

 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: Virginia
Posts: 125
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
audioquest, my source at Mac volunteered that the 3500 is significantly more powerful than the 2301, to the amount of 200-250 watts. He was not sure if it would equal the 550 watts continuous watts per channel of the original 3500. This is not dynamic headroom but continuous watts.

Best

Charles
Holy cow, that’s a lot more tube watts than the MC2301s. Glad you were able to obtain some information from McIntosh, of course, more is better. Will be interesting to see power output curves matrixed against THD at various power levels. The German magazine Audio did a review of the MC2301 years ago and said it was most powerful quiet tube amp they ever tested. I recall that they were getting somewhere around 450 watts in some specific ohm range that escape me. But, wow, McIntosh build some powerful tube amps.

Although I do not necessarily need more tube watts (yeah right, why turn down more, LoL), I am very curious as to how the lower THD, dynamic range, headroom, and S/N will factor in the overall sound of the MC3500s. Specs alone indicate that the MC3500s should sound better and be more dynamic. That’s what I am really interested in.
__________________
McIntosh MC2301 amps/McIntosh MVP 891 SACD/Octave Audio Jubilee reference preamp/Classic audio loudspeakers T1.5 reference (inbound)/B&W-HSU 15” sub/Aesthetix IO signature phono/Transrotor Apollon TMD 3 motor turntable
Reply With Quote
  #52  
Old 11-26-2021, 11:31 PM
Charles Charles is offline
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by audioquest4life View Post
Holy cow, that’s a lot more tube watts than the MC2301s. Glad you were able to obtain some information from McIntosh, of course, more is better. Will be interesting to see power output curves matrixed against THD at various power levels. The German magazine Audio did a review of the MC2301 years ago and said it was most powerful quiet tube amp they ever tested. I recall that they were getting somewhere around 450 watts in some specific ohm range that escape me. But, wow, McIntosh build some powerful tube amps.

Although I do not necessarily need more tube watts (yeah right, why turn down more, LoL), I am very curious as to how the lower THD, dynamic range, headroom, and S/N will factor in the overall sound of the MC3500s. Specs alone indicate that the MC3500s should sound better and be more dynamic. That’s what I am really interested in.
audioquest, I would not be in the market for a 3500, if I owned a 2301. I did not bring up the 2301 for a comparison. I was interested in the power of the 3500 because of the size of my XVX. He volunteered with the 2301 you got 300 watts and no more. He said it had to do with the output tubes which I know little about. He wasn't talking about headroom. If you read the description Mac says "conservatively rated" 350 watts. Apparently, the output tubes of the 3500 are significantly more powerful than those of the 2301.

Best

Charles
Reply With Quote
  #53  
Old 11-29-2021, 03:10 AM
kevtn8 kevtn8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 30
Default Sweep tube vs Kt88

This I like to hear. Comparing a tv sweep tube to Kt88 one of the greatest audio tubes ever made in most cases would be unfair but the McIntosh Unity Coupled circuit is unique and special in that the output tubes are mainly used for current while the smaller tubes handle all voltage amplification and drive. But McIntosh had to add an extra feedback loop on Mc3500 MK2 to get the linearity they wanted. TV sweep tubes are usually cheap but the JJ el509s tube is about as expensive as most Kt88 variants. So unless you really need all this tube power I would probably stick with Mc2301 or mc1502 or mc275 and call it a day. As an audio purist I'll take the Kt88 over the sweep tube any day of week if power is not factor.
Reply With Quote
  #54  
Old 11-29-2021, 12:21 PM
FreddieFerric's Avatar
FreddieFerric FreddieFerric is offline
Member

 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: NOLA
Posts: 1,411
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevtn8 View Post
This I like to hear. Comparing a tv sweep tube to Kt88 one of the greatest audio tubes ever made in most cases would be unfair but the McIntosh Unity Coupled circuit is unique and special in that the output tubes are mainly used for current while the smaller tubes handle all voltage amplification and drive. But McIntosh had to add an extra feedback loop on Mc3500 MK2 to get the linearity they wanted. TV sweep tubes are usually cheap but the JJ el509s tube is about as expensive as most Kt88 variants. So unless you really need all this tube power I would probably stick with Mc2301 or mc1502 or mc275 and call it a day. As an audio purist I'll take the Kt88 over the sweep tube any day of week if power is not factor.
Very interesting observations Kev.
__________________
McIntosh MA8000; Canton Vento Reference 1 DC; E.A.T. E-Flat; Soundsmith Paua Mk II; Tascam BR-20; Teac X1000R; Dokoder 1120; Pioneer RT-707; Oppo UDP 205; Denon DCD A-100; HP All-In-One Touchscreen Server; JRiver MC 20; Woo Audio WA6; Shure SRH 1840; SVS SB 1000 (3); Jolida 502BRC; Jolida JD9; VPI 16.5 RCM; Panamax PM-5400
Reply With Quote
  #55  
Old 11-30-2021, 04:18 AM
kevtn8 kevtn8 is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2019
Location: Fountain Valley, CA
Posts: 30
Default It's still a McIntosh!

Don't get me wrong. This will be a great amp because it's still a McIntosh. Their history, knowledge and engineering of tube amps is unrivaled. Without actually hearing it and considering the cost, I just think it's better for people to hang onto their Mc2301 , Mc1502 or Mc275 unless they really need all that tube power. For people that have already ordered, congratulations. It should be a special amp.
Reply With Quote
  #56  
Old 11-30-2021, 11:47 AM
Charles Charles is offline
Senior Member


 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Posts: 2,678
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevtn8 View Post
Don't get me wrong. This will be a great amp because it's still a McIntosh. Their history, knowledge and engineering of tube amps is unrivaled. Without actually hearing it and considering the cost, I just think it's better for people to hang onto their Mc2301 , Mc1502 or Mc275 unless they really need all that tube power. For people that have already ordered, congratulations. It should be a special amp.
kevtn8, I need the extra power with my XVX. I personally believe your arguments do not apply to either the original or new 3500. The 3500 is the most sought after Mac tube amp. In mint the 3500 sells for 60K/pair. There was a similar incorrect assessment of the new C12000 and its new phono stage compared to the C1100. You are making an incorrect assessment about the new tubes Mac is using when actually they are the strength of the design. Technology changes. It is natural to criticize a new design. The linearity circuit was also present in the old 3500. Mac has made the MKII similar to the older version in all respects. I certainly would not sell my 2301 if I owned one but I greatly prefer the new 3500 to the 2301 for my purposes. I regard the 3500 MKII as a super high power tube amp. However, there is no question that if you don't need the extra power, the 2301 will be a fierce competitor, just not for me.

Best

Charles

p.s. Note my new plinth installed yesterday by dealer. Thor is off my floor. Bass remarkably improved. I should have done this years ago but the bass was soo good I didn't believe it could be improved. I should have listened to Ivan and others on the website who told me to get my Thor off the floor. Pics up on Wilson Forum.
__________________________________________________ _______________________
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: McIntosh MC3500 MK II mono power amp, one per channel; custom granite slabs to set my MC3500 MKII’s
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport. Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic. WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection. New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes. Thor is now off my floor.
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC); custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP 881 BR player; MCT 500 transport; MVP 851 DVD player
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.

Last edited by Charles; 12-01-2021 at 10:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 07:14 AM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2022, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2021 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Accuphase
Accuphase