E-480 is coming

[navrsale]

Originally Posted by mblssmp2

Just seen this discussion and might be able to add a few notes. First, the integrated amps are all great but they do get better as you go from 270 to 370, 470 and 600. Now, the 650 seems to be a big step up from the 600. I have heard the 650 but not on my system. So hard to say how much of a step it is from the 600 but I have been told by somebody who has done the direct comparison, it is a significant step. When Accuphase releases a new product it is always a step up. Sometimes a small, sometimes a big step. However, with all this said, the source is still the most important thing and it is more important to spend a lot of the money there. Even the E270 is already very, very good. Anybody who gets into Accuphase should also be aware that it is all about time coherency. this is where the name Accuphase comes from. So Accuphase can give you a very musical system but it really needs the entire system to be serious about time coherency. Otherwise, the Accuphase will not shine.

Let's take 3 brands as an example: Esoteric, Audia Flight, Accuphase. If I recall correctly, Audia Flight preaches high bandwidth e.g. 1MHz (FL100, other higher models as well) i.e. similar to Goldmund, which probably goes to 3MHz in certain models. And high slew factor, if I correctly remember the name (V per micro-seconds). This allegedly based on a research that states human ears are more sensitive to phase differences than to distortion.
On the other hand, Accuphase, again based on my recollection, preaches very limited bandwidth e.g. 20kHz only, but something like 0.1dB. And they also base this on their research. I believe dartZeel belongs to this camp as well.

In order to come up with some kind of absolute truth, I was listening 100s and 100s of the above mentioned amps based systems on Youtube (where else would that be possible??). Of course, Youtube distorts, but I would imagine it distorts every system equally. One than just needs to remove these deltas from the equation and come up with his verdict. After a lot of such YT listening, I came to a conclusion that Audia Flight / Esoteric / Goldmund camp is right and Accuphase / dartZeel camp is wrong. Of course, comparing similarly priced products.

Even after 100s of listening sessions, the findings are not conclusive of course. But what is your personal opinion of these measures that different camps favour?

[Herbie49]

Originally Posted by jesuisunutopiste

I am with the same dilemma, E-470 / 480 or E-650, or even separates... But I will have a few audio sessions soon and should have a better idea.

I got quotes from two German Accuphase dealers and they give discounts, but warranty is only valid in Germany.

[FDPDK]

Originally Posted by mblssmp2

I have been told that the resell value in Germany of Accuphase bought through PIA is much higher than when bought through another source.

That is correct.

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by navrsale

On the other hand, Accuphase, again based on my recollection, preaches very limited bandwidth e.g. 20kHz only, but something like 0.1dB. And they also base this on their research. I believe dartZeel belongs to this camp as well.

Accuphase guarantees the frequency response as 20 - 20,000Hz +0 -0.2dB
and the bandwidth (-3dB points) as 0.5 - 150,000Hz +0 -3dB (e.g. E-480).
Contrary to your statement, Accuphase does absolutely not preach or limit bandwidth to 20kHz!

In addition Accuphase uses current feedback in all amps, which contrary to voltage feedback does not influence the real world bandwidth in any way. BTW no feedback leads to more distortion.

Can you confirm, that the bandwidths of the other manufacturers you mention are not open loop bandwidths (i.e. without feedback) but guaranteed closed loop bandwidths (i.e. with feedback)? Paper is patient!

Originally Posted by navrsale

In order to come up with some kind of absolute truth, I was listening 100s and 100s of the above mentioned amps based systems on Youtube (where else would that be possible??). Of course, Youtube distorts, but I would imagine it distorts every system equally. One than just needs to remove these deltas from the equation and come up with his verdict. After a lot of such YT listening, I came to a conclusion that Audia Flight / Esoteric / Goldmund camp is right and Accuphase / dartZeel camp is wrong. Of course, comparing similarly priced products.

IMHO comparing sound quality of high class amps based on YouTube audio and with unspecified speakers / headphones is simply a joke.

Martin

[meltemi]

Originally Posted by Herbie49

I got quotes from two German Accuphase dealers and they give discounts, but warranty is only valid in Germany.

Correct. And service as well, if ever needed, will only be done in Germany.

Martin

[xv21]

Originally Posted by Herbie49

I got quotes from two German Accuphase dealers and they give discounts, but warranty is only valid in Germany.

How payment goes in Germany? Do you have to first pay 50% of the total order amount to the German Accuphase dealer and then rest, when you get your order?

[FDPDK]

navrsale

I had the Audia Flight pre and FL.100 and then bought the Accuphase E-470
at the time i did some listening on my Audi Flight set before packing it up and unpack the E-470 and listened to the same tracks , as i could not make an A / B comparison but have to rely on memory i can say the the E-470 is at least as good as the Audia Flight set i had.

The biggest problem for me with the Audia Flight 100 was the heat generated which made me believe that the output transistors would not have a long life , and my small apartment that have windows facing South West was not a good combo.
I have also listened to the E-650 at a German dealer with B&W 802 D3 and all AudioQuest cabling the sounds was really good much better than my E-470 , but of course there are many variables that make a direct comparison impossible.

[runnin17]

I have heard the Accuphase E-470, E-600 and now the E-650 that I own. The E-470 was easily enough for my current Guarneri Memento's and I would have been very happy with the E-470 had I bought it. However, I felt that the E-600 when I listened to it was more of my type of amp. The control of the E-600 was absolute, so my decision to ultimately purchase the E-650 was rather simple.

All that being said, I know that Accuphase puts a lot of time and effort into their "upgrade/updated" components. So I am sure that there will be a host of very happy E-480 owners

[FDPDK]

Congratulations with your E-650 , i am sure it will be pure joy.

[jesuisunutopiste]

Originally Posted by navrsale

Did you ever consider Esoterics for your v2?

Yes, I did.
My only comparative listening experience so far on the Utopia Scala, the source being an Esoteric k-01x (I own both machines now), was with the following integrated amps:

in alphabetical order

Accuphase E-600
Accuphase E-470
Esoteric F-05
Luxman L-590
Yamaha A-S3000

Thus, a mixture of class A and AB

The result:

in terms of sound style (MY taste: transparent and clear)

Yamaha A-S3000
Accuphase E-470
Accuphase E-600
Luxman L-590
Esoteric F-05

in terms of quality of the sound (precision, soundstage, etc. etc.)

Accuphase E-600
Esoteric F-05
Accuphase E-470
Luxman L-590
Yamaha A-S3000

I really like the Yamaha sound, but they are not reaching the high(est) end.
With Accuphase, I can clearly make it to higher levels.
I did not like Luxman (that is taste...), and was a bit disappointed by Esoteric.
Wonderfully built machines, but the sound is to nice, not enough thrill.
But a second audition could possibly change my mind.
Esoteric is probably something for the long time.