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Subwoofers 80hz and Down under!

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  #1  
Old 12-18-2021, 07:00 PM
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Default Smaller sub recommendation

I’m considering purchasing two Rel S510 to add to my B&W 803D3 while they are on sale for Christmas. But I’m wondering, are there better subs available for my situation? The biggest limitation is width and depth size. The S510s (16Wx16Hx18.25D) are the largest I have room for so nothing larger. I’d prefer a sub with a 10” woofer (I’m thinking 8” too small for mains) and pricing under $3k each. My considerations so far are Rel and B&W. Any suggestions?
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2-Channel
McIntosh C2700, (2X)MC601, MEN220 Lampizator Baltic 3
Sonore opticalRendu, SGC sonicTransporter i5 (Gen 3), Roon Thorens TT TD318
B&W 803D3 JL Audio (2x)f110v2
Shunyata Denali/S v2, Alpha v2 PCs, WW Gold/Silver Eclipse Interconnects, Platinum USB

Whole House Music Listening
Bluesound Vault2i, PowerNode2, PulseMini2i, Pulse2, (3x)Flex
5.2 System Above using Passthru
Marantz SR7012
Oppo 205, Apple TV (4th gen), Sony XBR850e65
B&W HTM2 D3
Second 5.1 System Castoffs from Upgrades
LRC Paradigm Millenia 20, Velodyne MiniVee 10, KEF surrounds, DefTech AW6500

Last edited by dkorbal; 12-18-2021 at 07:18 PM.
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  #2  
Old 12-18-2021, 09:47 PM
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I don’t think anybody does small subs better than REL, the S series are great subs.
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D'Agostino Momentum S250 MxV & HD pre; Linn Klimax Organik DSM, SonicTransporter, EtherRegen; Acoustic Signature Typhoon Neo, Koetsu RSP, Boulder 1108; Sf Il Cremonese; Shunyata Everest, Altaira, Sigma & Alpha v2
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  #3  
Old 12-18-2021, 10:54 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkorbal View Post
I’m considering purchasing two Rel S510 to add to my B&W 803D3 while they are on sale for Christmas. But I’m wondering, are there better subs available for my situation? The biggest limitation is width and depth size. The S510s (16Wx16Hx18.25D) are the largest I have room for so nothing larger. I’d prefer a sub with a 10” woofer (I’m thinking 8” too small for mains) and pricing under $3k each. My considerations so far are Rel and B&W. Any suggestions?
Oh, yeah, there is a great alternative now...the KEF KC62. It's getting RAVE reviews everywhere. And, really small.

A friend in another forum has had about half a dozen subs from different mfrs (e.g. Rel, KEF Cube, KEF R400, Elac, 2x Rythmik, etc.) and he says the KEF KC62 is better than any of them.

And..it's small. Less than a foot square, something like 10" And...$1499/each.

Check out Darko's review here: https://youtu.be/Y2Lc8oOinOY

The thing is...these are excellent subs, and...they are small. Sounds perfect for your requirements.
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Lumin P1 streamer/DAC/preamp, Constellation Inspiration integrated TT: Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, EAR324. Harbeth 30.2s, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Alpha V2 SPs, Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Omega QR-s & Alpha NRv2 PCs, segmented Altaira SG stack w/ Alpha & Omega CGCs, Everest 8000 PD. Remote Server Room: Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark Master Clock & LPS, Alita, Battle Angel, (Akasa NUC Roon Core), iFi DC Purifiers (for SMPS used for Alita & router), Shunyata Gemini combo power distributor & Altaira-type CG GP-NR hub, Venom & Alpha CGCs, Shunyata NRv14 power cords for digital components.

Last edited by Puma Cat; 12-18-2021 at 11:02 PM.
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  #4  
Old 12-18-2021, 11:08 PM
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Thanks Stephen I did see Darko’s review. In fact he just gave it one of his “Products of 2021” award. I may have to take a more serious look at it.
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2-Channel
McIntosh C2700, (2X)MC601, MEN220 Lampizator Baltic 3
Sonore opticalRendu, SGC sonicTransporter i5 (Gen 3), Roon Thorens TT TD318
B&W 803D3 JL Audio (2x)f110v2
Shunyata Denali/S v2, Alpha v2 PCs, WW Gold/Silver Eclipse Interconnects, Platinum USB

Whole House Music Listening
Bluesound Vault2i, PowerNode2, PulseMini2i, Pulse2, (3x)Flex
5.2 System Above using Passthru
Marantz SR7012
Oppo 205, Apple TV (4th gen), Sony XBR850e65
B&W HTM2 D3
Second 5.1 System Castoffs from Upgrades
LRC Paradigm Millenia 20, Velodyne MiniVee 10, KEF surrounds, DefTech AW6500
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  #5  
Old 12-18-2021, 11:14 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkorbal View Post
Thanks Stephen I did see Darko’s review. In fact he just gave it one of his “Products of 2021” award. I may have to take a more serious look at it.
I would, if I were you. If I had a spare $1500 bucks to spend on some gear, I would be giving it some serious consideration. And...I have a REL R-305 here that is very nicely integrated.

But, as I'm now a retired guy, my "discretionary spend" for audio gear lately has been going to improving the acoustics of my listening space even further (based on John's excellent V/Coustics vid recently, as well). Just ordered some additional GIK panels and 4 ceiling diffractors.
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Lumin P1 streamer/DAC/preamp, Constellation Inspiration integrated TT: Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, EAR324. Harbeth 30.2s, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Alpha V2 SPs, Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Omega QR-s & Alpha NRv2 PCs, segmented Altaira SG stack w/ Alpha & Omega CGCs, Everest 8000 PD. Remote Server Room: Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark Master Clock & LPS, Alita, Battle Angel, (Akasa NUC Roon Core), iFi DC Purifiers (for SMPS used for Alita & router), Shunyata Gemini combo power distributor & Altaira-type CG GP-NR hub, Venom & Alpha CGCs, Shunyata NRv14 power cords for digital components.
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Old 12-18-2021, 11:15 PM
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Another manufacturer I see mentioned a lot is JLAudio. How does say a f110 compare to the Rel? How they integrate with my main speakers is first and foremost after size of course.
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Doug

2-Channel
McIntosh C2700, (2X)MC601, MEN220 Lampizator Baltic 3
Sonore opticalRendu, SGC sonicTransporter i5 (Gen 3), Roon Thorens TT TD318
B&W 803D3 JL Audio (2x)f110v2
Shunyata Denali/S v2, Alpha v2 PCs, WW Gold/Silver Eclipse Interconnects, Platinum USB

Whole House Music Listening
Bluesound Vault2i, PowerNode2, PulseMini2i, Pulse2, (3x)Flex
5.2 System Above using Passthru
Marantz SR7012
Oppo 205, Apple TV (4th gen), Sony XBR850e65
B&W HTM2 D3
Second 5.1 System Castoffs from Upgrades
LRC Paradigm Millenia 20, Velodyne MiniVee 10, KEF surrounds, DefTech AW6500
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  #7  
Old 12-18-2021, 11:30 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkorbal View Post
Another manufacturer I see mentioned a lot is JLAudio. How does say a f110 compare to the Rel? How they integrate with my main speakers is first and foremost after size of course.
Yeah, can't comment on anything I have not heard. I trust Darko's reviews.

When I integrated my REL, I did a DOE (Design of Experiments). I like having a....transfer function and being able to characterize control factor interactions with statistical rigor.

The interactions are shown in the Interaction Profiles at bottom left.



Response surface at a 155 Hz node, showing the interaction between Gain and Crossover...


The Power of DOE compels you...
__________________
Lumin P1 streamer/DAC/preamp, Constellation Inspiration integrated TT: Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, EAR324. Harbeth 30.2s, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Alpha V2 SPs, Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Omega QR-s & Alpha NRv2 PCs, segmented Altaira SG stack w/ Alpha & Omega CGCs, Everest 8000 PD. Remote Server Room: Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark Master Clock & LPS, Alita, Battle Angel, (Akasa NUC Roon Core), iFi DC Purifiers (for SMPS used for Alita & router), Shunyata Gemini combo power distributor & Altaira-type CG GP-NR hub, Venom & Alpha CGCs, Shunyata NRv14 power cords for digital components.
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  #8  
Old 12-19-2021, 12:37 AM
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dkorbal dkorbal is online now
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I’m not going to pretend I understand all of that but I am an engineer so I will figure it out. Just not tonight.
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Doug

2-Channel
McIntosh C2700, (2X)MC601, MEN220 Lampizator Baltic 3
Sonore opticalRendu, SGC sonicTransporter i5 (Gen 3), Roon Thorens TT TD318
B&W 803D3 JL Audio (2x)f110v2
Shunyata Denali/S v2, Alpha v2 PCs, WW Gold/Silver Eclipse Interconnects, Platinum USB

Whole House Music Listening
Bluesound Vault2i, PowerNode2, PulseMini2i, Pulse2, (3x)Flex
5.2 System Above using Passthru
Marantz SR7012
Oppo 205, Apple TV (4th gen), Sony XBR850e65
B&W HTM2 D3
Second 5.1 System Castoffs from Upgrades
LRC Paradigm Millenia 20, Velodyne MiniVee 10, KEF surrounds, DefTech AW6500
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  #9  
Old 12-19-2021, 01:14 AM
JMD JMD is offline
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Look at the Rythmik F12SE at $1189 and you get a 10% discount for multiples. It's 15 3/4 x 15 3/4 x 17. I also know the "friend" Puma is talking about for a few years and I personally take those pronouncements with a grain of salt. I own two pair of F-12's and have previously owned subs from HSU, SVS, Vandersteen, ACI and RSL. The Rythmik's are the best I've used.
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Last edited by JMD; 12-19-2021 at 01:18 AM.
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  #10  
Old 12-19-2021, 01:48 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dkorbal View Post
I’m not going to pretend I understand all of that but I am an engineer so I will figure it out. Just not tonight.


If you'd like to know more, Doug, ping me some time and I can talk you through it.



Meantime, here's an intro to DOE by JMP (these guys rock, I used to teach DOE with JMP...)

https://www.jmp.com/en_us/events/get...intro-kit.html
__________________
Lumin P1 streamer/DAC/preamp, Constellation Inspiration integrated TT: Michell Gyro SE MkII, SME V, Koetsu Urushi Vermilion, EAR324. Harbeth 30.2s, REL R-305, Shunyata Alpha V2 ICs, Alpha V2 SPs, Sigma XC, Sigma NRv2, Omega QR-s & Alpha NRv2 PCs, segmented Altaira SG stack w/ Alpha & Omega CGCs, Everest 8000 PD. Remote Server Room: Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark Master Clock & LPS, Alita, Battle Angel, (Akasa NUC Roon Core), iFi DC Purifiers (for SMPS used for Alita & router), Shunyata Gemini combo power distributor & Altaira-type CG GP-NR hub, Venom & Alpha CGCs, Shunyata NRv14 power cords for digital components.
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