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  #11  
Old 08-12-2022, 02:29 PM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by miatadan View Post
Why do you say reluctantly admit tubes sound better? Compared to the SS you have, what sonic differences do you find?

Only thing I will miss is not having power meters like the SS amps. Is there any way to judge power output using output levels on my D1100.

Dan
Dan, I can only speak to Mac tubes vs Mac solid state. I grew up with tubes. The very first amp I heard was a 20 watt/ch Allied Knight Integrated amplifier. I sold my MC275 soon after I got out into practice for a MC2100 (105 w/ch) solid state amp. I really liked it and from then on it was solid state for me.

I did notice a difference. The MC275 was better but over the years I convinced myself that tubes were simply not worth it, concentrating on achieving the best sound I could using SS. If you look at the major reviewers they all use SS. SS has many advantages, the chief of which is adequate power to achieve very loud sound levels.

Then the MC3500 came along. My reaction to it was "I want one." I can't explain why, except to say it was the first tube amp that seemed to have adequate power for me.

The first time I heard the 3500 the bass was better than through the 1.25KW. I have described this elsewhere so I won't go into details except to say it has a richness, a vibrancy, coupled with wonderful resolution that I have never heard before.

This got me to thinking about my MC275 vs my MC2100. I wish that I could have owned an original 3500 and some of the other vintage tube amps. I have missed a lot by being so convinced about solid state.

I can say that compared to a 1.25KW, everything the 1.25KW does well, the MC3500 does better. But the sound signatures are similar.

I have a pair of quite new 1.25KW's flanking my MC3500's. If I had to choose to only have one or the other, it would definitely be the 1.25KW's because of the unreliability of tubes.

The 1.25KW's are among the finest SS amps on the market. Other than some super amps I can't think of any other SS amp I would rather own regardless of price. I'm talking "Relentless" class amps. The new Relentless Epic would be my choice of the ultimate SS amp.

However, for me my choice of the ultimate amp be it tube or SS would be the MC3500.

I think a lower level in the Mac lineup you get a very significant slice of what you get with a 3500. At a price of 15K per amp the price of a 3500 is ridiculously inexpensive. I think it's the best amp in the world right now. So I admit I was wrong, maybe "reluctantly" was a poor choice of adverbs. Thanks for asking.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 08-12-2022 at 03:02 PM.
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  #12  
Old 08-12-2022, 08:00 PM
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Thank you Charles for you overview of your amp travels.
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Old 08-13-2022, 10:57 AM
PeterMusic PeterMusic is offline
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Thanks for the history Charles. I do not doubt your sonic conclusions, and I have much less tube experience than you (C22/MC275 for about 5 years). But I have to say that I'm puzzled every time I see someone write that tubes are not reliable (or tricky to maintain, or expensive to replace...).

I replaced my stock with Gold Lions after about 4 years, and I have the originals in reserve for an unexpected failure. Process took well under an hour for a noob, and the dollars were not significant compared to cost of system. So although I understand how a person might prefer a massive set of monoblocks to my more modest MC275, I do not understand why someone would think tubes are significantly more difficult to maintain than SS.

Thoughts or experiences on the above?
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Old 08-15-2022, 11:22 AM
Charles Charles is offline
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Originally Posted by PeterMusic View Post
Thanks for the history Charles. I do not doubt your sonic conclusions, and I have much less tube experience than you (C22/MC275 for about 5 years). But I have to say that I'm puzzled every time I see someone write that tubes are not reliable (or tricky to maintain, or expensive to replace...).

I replaced my stock with Gold Lions after about 4 years, and I have the originals in reserve for an unexpected failure. Process took well under an hour for a noob, and the dollars were not significant compared to cost of system. So although I understand how a person might prefer a massive set of monoblocks to my more modest MC275, I do not understand why someone would think tubes are significantly more difficult to maintain than SS.

Thoughts or experiences on the above?
Peter, that's an excellent point and question. I never had a single bit of trouble throughout my childhood or as an adult with Mac tubes. My 3500's have performed flawlessly. I'm planning to follow your advice and replace my tubes in 2026. I don't know at this point. I may sell my 1.25's. I know I won't be hooking them back up. That's for sure. I think I have missed out on a lot. Mac made a lot of very fine vintage tube amps. I would have enjoyed owning an original 3500 so very much and some of the other powerful tube amps.

Best

Charles

p.s. As a child I never remember my father replacing a tube, nor did I. I kept my MC275 all the way through med school, residency, and into practice. It performed flawlessly and there was no noticeable degradation in sound. I wish I'd never gone to solid state. I really do.
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Old 08-15-2022, 11:39 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
As a child I never remember my father replacing a tube, nor did I.
Nor do I, but am sure he did.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Charles View Post
I kept my MC275 all the way through med school, residency, and into practice. It performed flawlessly and there was no noticeable degradation in sound. I wish I'd never gone to solid state. I really do.
When you state "no noticeable degradation in sound" you are likely falling into the trap of not noticing something that happens slowly over many months or a few years. The incremental change is small so you don't notice. If you track hours on your tubes (I always do so) then try a new set of power tubes after 2500-3000hr and you may surprise yourself. The new set should be burned-in for 50-100hr then the old set put back in and see if you hear a difference. Of all tube amps McIntosh, due to their design, is one of the least sonically impacted by aging tubes. A good thing for the owner's wallet.
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Old 08-15-2022, 01:06 PM
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Well, as a kid I do remember my uncle coming over to troubleshoot our TV Set. He replaced a couple of bad tubes over the years.

Anyone remember your local drug store used to have a courtesy tube tester for its customers use? Similar to this...
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Old 08-15-2022, 02:49 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by FreddieFerric View Post
Well, as a kid I do remember my uncle coming over to troubleshoot our TV Set. He replaced a couple of bad tubes over the years.

Anyone remember your local drug store used to have a courtesy tube tester for its customers use? Similar to this...

Sure do - I remember going to the Rexall drugstore with my dad with tubes to be tested from the old Zenith tv.
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