Bi-wiring speakers with Zitron cables

[BlueFox]

Caelin,

I was reading a technical paper on the AudioQuest web-site regarding bi-wiring speakers. The gist of it is that this separates the low and high frequencies between cables, with a theoretical improvement in sound. Like everything else in audio, there are opinions on both sides of this subject. I have the Zitron Anaconda speaker cables, and I wonder what your opinion is on bi-wiring. Thanks for your time.

Bud, yes there is a slight theoretical advantage to biwiring provided both the crossover is properly separated for both the low & mid/high frequencies and you have "true" biwire cables. That is, the positive and negative signals are physically separated in separate runs of cable & don't share the same outer shielding (as per the photo below). With biwire cables that share a common outer shielding(s) you can get strand interaction between positive and negative paths which creates distortions.

Theoretically biwire cables (because they have twice the amount of copper) should have better dynamics and bass, but that is only a generalization. Having come from Jorma Origo biwire cables to Prime single wires, I can only say i'm blown away by the improvement in sound. The Prime biwires are twice the price of the single wires, and if the S5's were biwired, that would have priced me out of the biwires for sure. Magico eschewed biwire connections on the S5's and focussed their energy instead on quality over quantity. I've found that theory definitely works for cables as well.

Also more and more high end manufacturers are becoming concerned that if they offer biwire terminals with their low to midrange speakers (all being relative of course) end users might screw up the sound by using one brand of wire for the positive run & another brand for the negative, or use different lengths or gauges of cable. All makes sense really.



Cheers,

[CGabriel]

Originally Posted by BlueFox

Caelin, I was reading a technical paper on the AudioQuest web-site regarding bi-wiring speakers. The gist of it is that this separates the low and high frequencies between cables, with a theoretical improvement in sound. Like everything else in audio, there are opinions on both sides of this subject. I have the Zitron Anaconda speaker cables, and I wonder what your opinion is on bi-wiring. Thanks for your time.

So, open up a can of worms eh?

We don't have space or patience to do a white paper on bi-wire but I will give you my opinion. The concept of bi-wire began in the good ole days when there weren't "speaker cables". We just had "hookup wire" which was lamp cord wire which was stranded copper with PVC insulation in 18 to 14 gauge sizes. Very modest by today's standards for speaker cabling. Simply increasing the aggregate conductor cross-sectional area between an amplifier and speaker will reduce the impedance which will improve the power transfer function. That means it will likely sound better not the least reason being that it will be louder. Decreased impedance also improves the amps dampening factor and control of the speakers drivers. One method to increase conductor cross section is to simply increase the size of the wire for example from 14 gauge to 10 gauge wire. Another method would be to run two sets of hookup wire to the speaker. Two runs of 14 gauge wire is equivalent to a 11 gauge wire in cross-sectional area. If the speaker has a single binding post, you simply wrap the two wires around the lug. Some speaker manufacturers, who were savy listeners, started installing dual lugs or binding posts in their speakers and found that separating the cross-over (high and low) and dedicating a single run of wire for each also improved the sound. That was when lamp cord cost pennies per foot. Now we have speaker cables that cost more than the speakers and in some cases more than luxury cars. There are some that actually have some technological advancement over simple lamp cord but that is hotly debated. In any case we have a vast variety of wire and cabling now and cross-sectional area is not a issue given that many have an aggregate gauge size larger than your arm.

So, my opinion now, multiple runs of speaker wiring no longer has the clear advantage that it once did. Furthermore, the ability of the customer to use different wire gauge, geometry and metal types can significantly alter the sonic balance of a speaker that is bi or tri wired. I know some manufacturers (Wilson comes to mind) that want to ensure that balance between woofer, midrange and tweeter is controlled by the speaker's cross-over and not multiple runs of unknown speaker wire.

The simple fact is that some speakers can be bi and tri wired and some cannot. So there are practical questions that need to be answered if you happen to have a speaker that is bi or tri wired. Should you use single speaker cables and use jumpers? Should you run multiple runs of speaker wire or buy a cable that is built as a bi-wire design? If the cable is a bi-wire, is it a "true bi-wire" and what does that even mean? In my own system, whenever I have a question about speaker setup or configuration, I always get the opinion about such things from the individual speaker manufacturer. They usually (sometimes not) know what works best for their speaker. When bi-wiring a speaker these are my general preferences:

1) The two runs of wire should be separate through the entirety of the length of the cable. This means that the high/mid and the low conductor should each be separate starting at the amplifier speaker terminals.

2) The high/mid and the low conductor should be the same size in gauge and of the same geometry and conductor type. Identical.

3) The conductors should be the same length.

4) The positive and negative conductors should be the same size - not different as is done in some designs.

BTW, a bi-wire speaker cable does not split the frequencies - the cross-over in the speaker does that. The full spectrum of frequencies is present at both the high/mid and the low terminals.

cg

[GaryProtein]

Originally Posted by CGabriel

So, open up a can of worms eh?

We don't have space or patience to do a white paper on bi-wire but I will give you my opinion. The concept of bi-wire began in the good ole days when there weren't "speaker cables". We just had "hookup wire" which was lamp cord wire which was stranded copper with PVC insulation in 18 to 14 gauge sizes. Very modest by today's standards for speaker cabling. Simply increasing the aggregate conductor cross-sectional area between an amplifier and speaker will reduce the impedance which will improve the power transfer function. That means it will likely sound better not the least reason being that it will be louder. Decreased impedance also improves the amps dampening factor and control of the speakers drivers. One method to increase conductor cross section is to simply increase the size of the wire for example from 14 gauge to 10 gauge wire. Another method would be to run two sets of hookup wire to the speaker. Two runs of 14 gauge wire is equivalent to a 11 gauge wire in cross-sectional area. If the speaker has a single binding post, you simply wrap the two wires around the lug. Some speaker manufacturers, who were savy listeners, started installing dual lugs or binding posts in their speakers and found that separating the cross-over (high and low) and dedicating a single run of wire for each also improved the sound. That was when lamp cord cost pennies per foot. Now we have speaker cables that cost more than the speakers and in some cases more than luxury cars. There are some that actually have some technological advancement over simple lamp cord but that is hotly debated. In any case we have a vast variety of wire and cabling now and cross-sectional area is not a issue given that many have an aggregate gauge size larger than your arm.

So, my opinion now, multiple runs of speaker wiring no longer has the clear advantage that it once did. Furthermore, the ability of the customer to use different wire gauge, geometry and metal types can significantly alter the sonic balance of a speaker that is bi or tri wired. I know some manufacturers (Wilson comes to mind) that want to ensure that balance between woofer, midrange and tweeter is controlled by the speaker's cross-over and not multiple runs of unknown speaker wire.

The simple fact is that some speakers can be bi and tri wired and some cannot. So there are practical questions that need to be answered if you happen to have a speaker that is bi or tri wired. Should you use single speaker cables and use jumpers? Should you run multiple runs of speaker wire or buy a cable that is built as a bi-wire design? If the cable is a bi-wire, is it a "true bi-wire" and what does that even mean? In my own system, whenever I have a question about speaker setup or configuration, I always get the opinion about such things from the individual speaker manufacturer. They usually (sometimes not) know what works best for their speaker. When bi-wiring a speaker these are my general preferences:

1) The two runs of wire should be separate through the entirety of the length of the cable. This means that the high/mid and the low conductor should each be separate starting at the amplifier speaker terminals.

2) The high/mid and the low conductor should be the same size in gauge and of the same geometry and conductor type. Identical.

3) The conductors should be the same length.

4) The positive and negative conductors should be the same size - not different as is done in some designs.

BTW, a bi-wire speaker cable does not split the frequencies - the cross-over in the speaker does that. The full spectrum of frequencies is present at both the high/mid and the low terminals.

cg

And in the end, THAT'S why multi-wiring has no real value.

[BlueFox]

Caelin, thanks for the answer, and, as usual, a great response. I wasn't trying to open that can of worms, and start a debate. I was just curious if Shunyata had done any research into it with the Zitron cables. I took your suggestion and wrote Aerial to see what they say in regard to the 7T. Thanks for the point that bi-wiring doesn't result in different frequencies going through the cable. When I read the AudioQuest paper saying the frequencies were separated between cables that is when I started thinking maybe bi-wiring can make a difference.

[CGabriel]

Originally Posted by BlueFox

Caelin, thanks for the answer, and, as usual, a great response. I wasn't trying to open that can of worms, and start a debate. I was just curious if Shunyata had done any research into it with the Zitron cables. I took your suggestion and wrote Aerial to see what they say in regard to the 7T. Thanks for the point that bi-wiring doesn't result in different frequencies going through the cable. When I read the AudioQuest paper saying the frequencies were separated between cables that is when I started thinking maybe bi-wiring can make a difference.

I didn't say that different frequencies were not "conducted" by the separate wires. I am just saying that the speaker cable does not split the frequencies or is the cause for different frequencies traveling over the wires. The cross- over determines which frequency band travels through the cable. Understand the difference?

IF you use a bi-wire cable, THEN I recommend following my recommendations for it.

Bi-wiring can and does make a difference if the speaker is designed for bi-wire. However, with high performance cables with their corresponding high prices does it make sense to double the cost of the speaker cable for a bi-wire or could you get better performance by simply upgrading to a higher level cable and use quality jumpers. This is where the speaker designer can really help you.

cg

[DonBattles]

Originally Posted by CGabriel

I didn't say that different frequencies were not "conducted" by the separate wires. I am just saying that the speaker cable does not split the frequencies or is the cause for different frequencies traveling over the wires. The cross- over determines which frequency band travels through the cable. Understand the difference? IF you use a bi-wire cable, THEN I recommend following my recommendations for it. Bi-wiring can and does make a difference if the speaker is designed for bi-wire. However, with high performance cables with their corresponding high prices does it make sense to double the cost of the speaker cable for a bi-wire or could you get better performance by simply upgrading to a higher level cable and use quality jumpers. This is where the speaker designer can really help you. cg

So if all your wires are of the same length and quality and the speaker manufacturer recommends a bi-wire set up then you should hear a difference?

[CGabriel]

Originally Posted by DonBattles

So if all your wires are of the same length and quality and the speaker manufacturer recommends a bi-wire set up then you should hear a difference?

If you are using a single run of Home Depot 12 AWG wire and then you do another run of same to a bi-wire speaker you will hear a difference. You would also hear a difference if you ran two sets of the same wire to a non bi-wire speaker versus a single run of same. More aggregate cross-section area will increase perceived performance. So bi-wire or two runs of common wire will sound better. But there is a limit to this. As you increase parallel conductors you increase the parallel capacitance and you magnify dielectric distortions. Just increasing the number of conductors does not compensate for metal quality, dielectric material, geometry, terminal quality or termination craftsmanship.

Will the bi-wire run of common 12 AWG outperform a single run of one of the top audiophile speaker cables i.e. (Siltech, Transparent, MIT, Wire World, Cardas, Shunyata)? Not a chance.

You could run 16 parallel runs of common wire to a speaker and never approach the performance of a single ZyTron Speaker Cable. Will a bi-wire ZyTron cable of the same model on a bi-wire speaker outperform a single run with jumpers? Maybe. That is where you would like to have good advice from the speaker manufacturer or a great dealer that has done the hard work for you. This is the value of experienced and knowledgeable dealers. Few consumers have access to all the possible products and configurations.

cg

[DonBattles]

Originally Posted by CGabriel

If you are using a single run of Home Depot 12 AWG wire and then you do another run of same to a bi-wire speaker you will hear a difference. You would also hear a difference if you ran two sets of the same wire to a non bi-wire speaker versus a single run of same. More aggregate cross-section area will increase perceived performance. So bi-wire or two runs of common wire will sound better. But there is a limit to this. As you increase parallel conductors you increase the parallel capacitance and you magnify dielectric distortions. Just increasing the number of conductors does not compensate for metal quality, dielectric material, geometry, terminal quality or termination craftsmanship.

Will the bi-wire run of common 12 AWG outperform a single run of one of the top audiophile speaker cables i.e. (Siltech, Transparent, MIT, Wire World, Cardas, Shunyata)? Not a chance.

You could run 16 parallel runs of common wire to a speaker and never approach the performance of a single ZyTron Speaker Cable. Will a bi-wire ZyTron cable of the same model on a bi-wire speaker outperform a single run with jumpers? Maybe. That is where you would like to have good advice from the speaker manufacturer or a great dealer that has done the hard work for you. This is the value of experienced and knowledgeable dealers. Few consumers have access to all the possible products and configurations.

cg

10/4

[BlueFox]

This is what I received from Aerial this morning regarding this subject.

"We don't have a general recommendation on bi-wiring because the results are variable. Bad cable isn't saved by bi-wiring. Also, Bi-wiring isn't necessary on the best cables. For cable in between, it can help.

Best is to disconnect one speaker, listen in mono for awhile until you are used to it, then bi-wire the first speaker using the extra cable from the disconnected speaker. Do not change anything else. Then listen again. This will give you some idea of what the effect is with your current cables. If you have good cables, the effect should be limited.

With a X600.5 you might consider the 20T V2's in the future. They are a whole new world. Not just better 7Ts but something beyond that in many ways. It's certainly more improvement than changing cables would provide, but it is more expensive too.

Thank you for choosing the 7T's."