What am I missing?

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by 2-Channel

Can a blind A/B test truly be conducted with vinyl vs CD?

I would think that every vinyl listening session will include *some* crackling and maybe *some* hiss which would quickly identify the source being vinyl.

That's true for most TT's.
Listen to an SME 20 / 2 or a LP12 SE. If the Vinyl is new and perfectly clean, you will hear 0 crackling / hiss / pops....

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by EasyRiderNYC

When listening to vinyl, the music seems to move around my whole apartment(in a good way), Digital seems dead.

+1 !!
Alberto says Cd's are more "flat". When you're really "flat", you're dead ! you don't breathe !! we're all feeling the same here !

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by 2uberoller

More and more people are getting back into vinyl. Today I was in Barnes and Noble at the Mall of all places and they have a rack of new audiophile grade 180 gm vinyl for sale. I bought 2 albums and they sound excellent. I also bought 2 cd's and they sound excellent to. It is not either or rather enjoy both. I am using a inexpensive turntable too.

Let me guess.......the two CDs were:

[EasyRiderNYC]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Let me guess.......the two CDs were:

Don't forget Diana Krall.

[EasyRiderNYC]

Originally Posted by 2uberoller

More and more people are getting back into vinyl. Today I was in Barnes and Noble at the Mall of all places and they have a rack of new audiophile grade 180 gm vinyl for sale. I bought 2 albums and they sound excellent. I also bought 2 cd's and they sound excellent to. It is not either or rather enjoy both. I am using a inexpensive turntable too.

How much is the MCD500? 6500.00?

The SL1200? 450-500.00

just think if you threw down even 1500.00 with an external power supply and a decent cart.

[1KW]

Originally Posted by EasyRiderNYC

How much is the MCD500? 6500.00?

The SL1200? 450-500.00

just think if you threw down even 1500.00 with an external power supply and a decent cart.

I know, now I find myself looking and thinking about maybe upgrading my turntable/cart. however it will never replace my MCD500 as my main source. Listening to LP's is like driving a vintage car to me, it will never be my every day car or the one I take on a long trip.

[David]

Originally Posted by JDCheek

The thread by two dot about a new TT encouraged me to bite the bullet and ask why at all. Before you throw stones, know that I ask in an attempt to not only understand, but I mostly make sure that I am not missing something incredible. I did recently audition a MT-10, listening to both the analog as well as the digital versions on the same system. There is no question that the vinyl sounded different, but I could not really say it sounded better. So as I considered moving to another medium, I could not ignore the expense of vinyl if I didn't consider it an upgrade. Thoughts?

I listen to digital probably 95% of the time mostly for convenience and lack of noise, but vinyl has a special place. Good vinyl, maybe 1 in 5 records, has a palpability, warmth, and smoothness that under normal circumstances digital can't match. I have a few favorite LP's which have a magic that their digital counterpart some how can't produce. I agree that the sound is different than digital. I even think that digital in most respects is more realistic than vinyl, but the ease and smoothness of vinyl has a beauty to it that beats digital for most listeners. SACD might be the best of both worlds.

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Hi,
This is what I stated in an other post and I confirm it :
"
- my old LP12 beats my MDA 1000 by a good margin. The MDA was a bit better on my ESL pannels. But with the EB1i and their incredible dynamics, the MDA is smoked by the "old" LP12 ! Maybe your feeling is related to a speakers synergy with CD and not vinyl.
- the LP12 SE is far better than any CD playback. It beats of course the MDA 1000 / MCD1000 and it beats also the Unidisk 1.1 considered by Stereophile one of the best CD palyers ever made. My best friend has both and he does not listen to cd's anymore. The sound of the LP12SE is so amazing, that he bought more than 500 LP's within 6 months !! "

Jean Marc ( jmajma ) has a MCD/MDA1000. He has a Clearaudio Champion level II ( about 5000 euros of cost ), and he also agrees that LP's are more musical than CD's.
Very difficult to explain.
1) You have to live some time with LP's to realize why they are better. It won't blow you in a short A/ B with CD's, unless you get the chance to listen to a very High End TT, like the LP12SE, VERDIER LA PLATINE, SME 30/2, AVID REFERENCE ACUTUS and so on.
2) Bring some musicians to an A/B blind test session. Usually they have good ears. I made that experience a few times. They will always prefer vinyl.
3) Vinyl lovers will tell you always this : despite "dynamics" are supposed to be higher with CD's, you hear exactly the opposite with LP's. This is well described on the SME site.
4) I could write on that subject during hours. So let's get to the main point I think :
with LP's, the music BREATHES. . There is much much more air between the instruments. Like in the real life. CD's give a more compact, dense, "studio" presentation of the sound.
This "breathing" in music is well stated by the Stereophile review of the MC501.
You also feel that breathing when you hear an Ongaku 300B Audio Note amp for example, or even the excellent and beloved MC275.
5) To recognize how vinyl is superior to CD's you have to change your listening habits. Maybe you're listening more "sounds" than you're listening "music". Start to listen the whole message. Do not analyse it.

Take it this way, you will thank me later

Best wishes,
Jérôme

Jerome
I started to write a long reply to your post but decided to delete it. To summarize, you may think vinyl is better, but that is your opinion and in mine you are wrong. If you like the sound of mid's you will like vinyl and tubes. If you like to hear high's, low's and dynamic range you will enjoy CD/SACD's.
As far as changing speakers, or listening to what musicians think, I think not.
Jim

[Jerome W]

Originally Posted by Stillone

Jerome
I started to write a long reply to your post but decided to delete it. To summarize, you may think vinyl is better, but that is your opinion and in mine you are wrong. If you like the sound of mid's you will like vinyl and tubes. If you like to hear high's, low's and dynamic range you will enjoy CD/SACD's.
As far as changing speakers, or listening to what musicians think, I think not.
Jim

Jim,

Did you ever listen to an High End TT ( not Very High End at 100000 $), I mean about 15 to 20000 $ including PS and cart ?
Because we have to compare things in the same price cat.
For example, an LP12SE fully loaded is in the same price tag as the MCD/MDA1000.
These TT's have nothing less in terms of extension and dynamics for bass and treble compared to CD's. And yes, the meds are to die for.
But you're right, that is just my opinion.

Jérôme

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

Jim,

Did you ever listen to an High End TT ( not Very High End at 100000 $), I mean about 15 to 20000 $ including PS and cart ?
Because we have to compare things in the same price cat.
For example, an LP12SE fully loaded is in the same price tag as the MCD/MDA1000.
These TT's have nothing less in terms of extension and dynamics for bass and treble compared to CD's. And yes, the meds are to die for.
But you're right, that is just my opinion.

Jérôme

Lets see, I have owned and discarded 2 Linn's (one early ~ 75 and one again in early '01 with "mods") and one Oracle, gone thru countless cartridges and a couple of phono amps. I spent several hours listening to the the plus $100k Caliburn Turntable and on the next visit it's baby brother the Criterion. In my mind both of which were easily surpassed by the Zanden CD/DAC combo in the same system. Besides those I have had some exposure to VPI's, Basis and Nottingham.