What am I missing?

[JDCheek]

The thread by two dot about a new TT encouraged me to bite the bullet and ask why at all. Before you throw stones, know that I ask in an attempt to not only understand, but I mostly make sure that I am not missing something incredible. I did recently audition a MT-10, listening to both the analog as well as the digital versions on the same system. There is no question that the vinyl sounded different, but I could not really say it sounded better. So as I considered moving to another medium, I could not ignore the expense of vinyl if I didn't consider it an upgrade. Thoughts?

[Still-One]

Originally Posted by JDCheek

The thread by two dot about a new TT encouraged me to bite the bullet and ask why at all. Before you throw stones, know that I ask in an attempt to not only understand, but I mostly make sure that I am not missing something incredible. I did recently audition a MT-10, listening to both the analog as well as the digital versions on the same system. There is no question that the vinyl sounded different, but I could not really say it sounded better. So as I considered moving to another medium, I could not ignore the expense of vinyl if I didn't consider it an upgrade. Thoughts?

I am interested in the answers you get.

[gregswaim]

I've had records my whole life until I auditioned/bought the MCD201 in June 2006. I got rid of my LP12 and replaced it with the MAC MCD201. In Jan of this year I decided that I missed playing records so I purchased a new Linn Sondek LP12 and amassed about 100 or so new(used actually from a local bookstore) since then. I don't plan on buying anymore LP's, I just wanted enough to keep me satisfied with spinning a LP's once in a while.
Before, I had over 600 LP's and gave them away to friend. I don't regret doing that because my musical interests have changed and I've replaced all of those R&R LP's with the CD version.
LP's are no longer a reference format in my opinion, digital has come of age and now delivers the promise made back in 1982- yes it took a while to deliver!
LP's do sound very good and in my case there were a lot of recordings that were not available in CD/SACD format plus I only paid $4-5 for each used LP and all are in excellent condition too! In my opinion, LP playback is a novelty and there will probably always be small group of individuals that will feel that vinyl playback is better than any other playback source- sort of like tubes vs SS. So, there's nothing wrong with vinyl playback, it can be very satisfying but can't match the dynamics and resolve of digital.
Just my opinion.

[JFR0317]

Originally Posted by gregswaim

I've had records my whole life until I auditioned/bought the MCD201 in June 2006. I got rid of my LP12 and replaced it with the MAC MCD201. In Jan of this year I decided that I missed playing records so I purchased a new Linn Sondek LP12 and amassed about 100 or so new(used actually from a local bookstore) since then. I don't plan on buying anymore LP's, I just wanted enough to keep me satisfied with spinning a LP's once in a while.
Before, I had over 600 LP's and gave them away to friend. I don't regret doing that because my musical interests have changed and I've replaced all of those R&R LP's with the CD version.
LP's are no longer a reference format in my opinion, digital has come of age and now delivers the promise made back in 1982- yes it took a while to deliver!
LP's do sound very good and in my case there were a lot of recordings that were not available in CD/SACD format plus I only paid $4-5 for each used LP and all are in excellent condition too! In my opinion, LP playback is a novelty and there will probably always be small group of individuals that will feel that vinyl playback is better than any other playback source- sort of like tubes vs SS. So, there's nothing wrong with vinyl playback, it can be very satisfying but can't match the dynamics and resolve of digital.
Just my opinion.

Greg - thanks very much for this perspective. Very good information knowing your equipment and listening proclivities.

[1KW]

More and more people are getting back into vinyl. Today I was in Barnes and Noble at the Mall of all places and they have a rack of new audiophile grade 180 gm vinyl for sale. I bought 2 albums and they sound excellent. I also bought 2 cd's and they sound excellent to. It is not either or rather enjoy both. I am using a inexpensive turntable too.

[Jerome W]

Hi,
This is what I stated in an other post and I confirm it :
"
- my old LP12 beats my MDA 1000 by a good margin. The MDA was a bit better on my ESL pannels. But with the EB1i and their incredible dynamics, the MDA is smoked by the "old" LP12 ! Maybe your feeling is related to a speakers synergy with CD and not vinyl.
- the LP12 SE is far better than any CD playback. It beats of course the MDA 1000 / MCD1000 and it beats also the Unidisk 1.1 considered by Stereophile one of the best CD palyers ever made. My best friend has both and he does not listen to cd's anymore. The sound of the LP12SE is so amazing, that he bought more than 500 LP's within 6 months !! "

Jean Marc ( jmajma ) has a MCD/MDA1000. He has a Clearaudio Champion level II ( about 5000 euros of cost ), and he also agrees that LP's are more musical than CD's.
Very difficult to explain.
1) You have to live some time with LP's to realize why they are better. It won't blow you in a short A/ B with CD's, unless you get the chance to listen to a very High End TT, like the LP12SE, VERDIER LA PLATINE, SME 30/2, AVID REFERENCE ACUTUS and so on.
2) Bring some musicians to an A/B blind test session. Usually they have good ears. I made that experience a few times. They will always prefer vinyl.
3) Vinyl lovers will tell you always this : despite "dynamics" are supposed to be higher with CD's, you hear exactly the opposite with LP's. This is well described on the SME site.
4) I could write on that subject during hours. So let's get to the main point I think :
with LP's, the music BREATHES. . There is much much more air between the instruments. Like in the real life. CD's give a more compact, dense, "studio" presentation of the sound.
This "breathing" in music is well stated by the Stereophile review of the MC501.
You also feel that breathing when you hear an Ongaku 300B Audio Note amp for example, or even the excellent and beloved MC275.
5) To recognize how vinyl is superior to CD's you have to change your listening habits. Maybe you're listening more "sounds" than you're listening "music". Start to listen the whole message. Do not analyse it.

Take it this way, you will thank me later

Best wishes,
Jérôme

[EasyRiderNYC]

When listening to vinyl, the music seems to move around my whole apartment(in a good way), Digital seems dead.

[1KW]

Originally Posted by EasyRiderNYC

When listening to vinyl, the music seems to move around my whole apartment(in a good way), Digital seems dead.

I think you need to listen to the MCD500 which to me sounds very analog. I enjoy vinyl but I enjoy the MCD500 a little more. Of course I am not comparing apples to apples. I also in addition to liking the sound of the MCD500 more, not having to flip sides, being able to skip tracks, being able to attach a music server so you have a juke box of high quality music to listen to all have value for listening pleasure. Some people enjoy sailing more than a power boat even though sailing without a motor takes much longer and uses old technology. Sailing is about the experience of being on the water just as analog has its merits. At the same time using this same analogy being on a luxury cruise ship which is quiet, smooth, elegant dining, lots of entertainment is nice too. Not an either or both are for different moods and experiences.

[2-Channel]

Originally Posted by C220MC275

2) Bring some musicians to an A/B blind test session.

Can a blind A/B test truly be conducted with vinyl vs CD?

I would think that every vinyl listening session will include *some* crackling and maybe *some* hiss which would quickly identify the source being vinyl.

[gregswaim]

Originally Posted by 2-Channel

Can a blind A/B test truly be conducted with vinyl vs CD?

I would think that every vinyl listening session will include *some* crackling and maybe *some* hiss which would quickly identify the source being vinyl.

That's exactly what the guys from Linn did when they came to Dallas from Scotland to demo the LP12 SE in July 2007. Using all top of the line Linn stuff, they tried to demonstrate by A/B comparison that the new LP12 SE(fully loaded-$18k) was better than their top of the line Klimax CD/SACD player. The succeeded. However, my MCD500 can best the Linn Klimax and the LP12 SE in sound-just my opinion. The Linn Klimax DS server, on the other hand, can best best any source component that I've ever heard so far. The down side of having a DS server of course is that it's internet based- just make sure that your computer/server never crashes or gets a virus otherwise you'll have no music.