AudioAficionado.org  

Go Back   AudioAficionado.org > The Lounge > General Audio Discussion

General Audio Discussion All other Audio Q & A

Reply
 
Thread Tools Display Modes
  #1  
Old 04-12-2021, 02:21 AM
70sMac's Avatar
70sMac 70sMac is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: The Berkshires
Posts: 557
Default Looking for a primer on "surround" music

I hope that I'm on the right board, but I'd like to learn more about music recording formats that allow one to hear old favorites in surround.

Unfortunately, the more reading I do on the subject, the more confused I become. If anyone knows of a good source to learn the basics of surround music, I'd really appreciate the pointer.

Thank you kindly for your time...
__________________
Bill in the Hills

OUR VINTAGE MAC: MAC4100, MAC4200 | AMPS: MC452, MC300 | MAC PRE/PROS: MX151, MX130, MX121 | B&W SPEAKERS: (2) N802s, (2) N805s, (1) HTM3S | NEWER EQUIPMENT: Oppo 203 & 105D, Sony X800M2, Denon CDR-W1500 | VIDEO DISPLAY: 65" LG OLED | IMPORTANT NOTE: Zero High-speed internet connections
Reply With Quote
  #2  
Old 04-12-2021, 06:14 AM
tima tima is offline
Living La Vida Vinyl
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Posts: 1,398
Default

Send a PM to Kal Rubinson - he's an expert on surround sound and can give you recommendations, including his own writing for Stereophile and Audiophile Style.
Reply With Quote
  #3  
Old 04-12-2021, 09:28 AM
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,588
Default

I do not think that I can offer much help on "music recording formats that allow one to hear old favorites in surround." To me, this implies taking original stereo/mono recordings and up-mixing them to multichannel. I let the record companies do this but, personally, do not care for it.

I have little interest in anything other than discrete multichannel recordings made from discrete original tracks.

P.S. I write for Stereophile only. I do post here and on other forums for my personal entertainment.
Reply With Quote
  #4  
Old 04-12-2021, 03:28 PM
70sMac's Avatar
70sMac 70sMac is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: The Berkshires
Posts: 557
Default A Subjective Subject

Needless to say, one's taste in a given recording format can be very subjective, so I'm not really polling for favorites here.

I've heard DTS 5.1 Surround Mixes of very old music, which I referred to in the original posts as "old favorites" that sound pretty good to these [admittedly] old ears. I've also heard DTS upmixes of old music that sounds pretty good, as well. I'm sure that these mixes aren't considered to be the "best" by many experts, but, once again, this is a very subjective subject.

In order to simplify things, I'd like to start at the novice level and learn the basics of surround recording formats and what each has to offer. We've enjoyed our stereo "rebook" CD collection for many years, but the slow addition of certain equipment, mainly audio/video in nature, has changed things for us.

When we finally lost our last tube TV (in 2016), we finally shopped for our first "flatscreen" television. After auditioning several brands, we noticed that they all had those funny looking rectangular "strips" running along the bottom, which introduced us to soundbars. Well, as it turned out, we purchased an OLED TV and a Samsung soundbar to go with it.

As we stay pretty busy making a living, the new OLED TV was initially mounted to a wall bracket as quickly as possible...but the soundbar system, on the other hand, stayed in its box, collecting dust, until early last year (2020). That's when "covid time" gave us the opportunity to pay more attention to our home entertainment devices. So we took the TV off of the wall and used the stand that it came with to place it onto the top of a cabinet, which gave us a nice flat surface to easily rest the soundbar on...but I digress. The point is that once we used the television to play some of our physical movie media -- with the soundbar employed -- we quickly discovered that all of the insane money being put into modern film productions also includes some pretty heavy duty sound engineering. In short, that soundbar, and the active subwoofer it came with, changed the way we listen to our own physical media...and once I heard something like "You're Gonna Miss Me" by The 13th Floor Elevators [read: a song recorded in early 1966] via a blu-ray disc, I started to wonder what else I've been missing for years.

We also experimented with our speaker placement and the settings on our Mac MX units and, eventually, ran into the surround phenomenon...so long story long, I've been very impressed with what's happened to music recording and engineering ever since we stumbled upon it in our own home. The fact that sound engineering can deliver a new take on those "old favorites" I mentioned is pretty exciting to me.

So, once again, if anyone knows of a good place to start learning about the development of surround recording, I'd really appreciate your advice.
__________________
Bill in the Hills

OUR VINTAGE MAC: MAC4100, MAC4200 | AMPS: MC452, MC300 | MAC PRE/PROS: MX151, MX130, MX121 | B&W SPEAKERS: (2) N802s, (2) N805s, (1) HTM3S | NEWER EQUIPMENT: Oppo 203 & 105D, Sony X800M2, Denon CDR-W1500 | VIDEO DISPLAY: 65" LG OLED | IMPORTANT NOTE: Zero High-speed internet connections

Last edited by 70sMac; 04-12-2021 at 03:35 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #5  
Old 04-12-2021, 03:49 PM
bart's Avatar
bart bart is offline
Life is beautiful
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 19,867
Default

Bill, I do enjoy "old favourites" in multichannel.
I own albums from The Beatles, Genesis, The Moody Blues, Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd amongst (many) others.
Mostly in the DVD-A, Blu-ray and SACD format.
They are good fun.

That being said, I agree with Kal, that the most natural sounding ones are recorded in the last 2 decades, in discrete multichannel.
These include a couple of jazz albums, a lot of classical albums, and a few pop albums (mostly concerts).

Enjoy the journey!
__________________
Stereo: Hegel H590, Grimm Audio MU1, Mola Mola Tambaqui, Burmester 948 - V3 & V6 racks, Vivid Audio G2 Giyas, REL Carbon Special (pair), Silent Angel Bonn N8 Ethernet Switch & Forester F1, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse IC and SE SC, Furutech Digiflux
AV: Hegel C-53, Marantz AV8802A, Oppo BDP-203EU, Pioneer Kuro 60", Vivid Audio C1 & V1w's, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse, SE & E
Second system (veranda): Halgorythme preamp and monoblocks, Burmester 061, Avalon Avatar, Sharkwire & Wireworld cables
Reply With Quote
  #6  
Old 04-13-2021, 01:31 AM
70sMac's Avatar
70sMac 70sMac is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Nov 2018
Location: The Berkshires
Posts: 557
Smile Thanks for the post

Quote:
Originally Posted by bart View Post
Bill, I do enjoy "old favourites" in multichannel.
I own albums from The Beatles, Genesis, The Moody Blues, Fleetwood Mac, Pink Floyd amongst (many) others.
Mostly in the DVD-A, Blu-ray and SACD format.
They are good fun.

That being said, I agree with Kal, that the most natural sounding ones are recorded in the last 2 decades, in discrete multichannel.
These include a couple of jazz albums, a lot of classical albums, and a few pop albums (mostly concerts).

Enjoy the journey!
Hi, Bart, it's been a while...Now that I've gone from asking about surround equipment to asking about the music recordings themselves, would you kindly tell me which surround recording format you prefer?

I see that you listed DVD-A, Blu-ray and SACD as examples. When it comes to surround multichannel, is there one you would put your money into over another? Put another way, if all three surround recording formats were available for an album that you want for your collection, which one would you choose? I'd also really appreciate it if you would you give me an explanation as to why.

Thanks for posting and I hope to learn more from you about this confusing subject ~ Bill
__________________
Bill in the Hills

OUR VINTAGE MAC: MAC4100, MAC4200 | AMPS: MC452, MC300 | MAC PRE/PROS: MX151, MX130, MX121 | B&W SPEAKERS: (2) N802s, (2) N805s, (1) HTM3S | NEWER EQUIPMENT: Oppo 203 & 105D, Sony X800M2, Denon CDR-W1500 | VIDEO DISPLAY: 65" LG OLED | IMPORTANT NOTE: Zero High-speed internet connections
Reply With Quote
  #7  
Old 04-13-2021, 11:56 AM
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by 70sMac View Post
I see that you listed DVD-A, Blu-ray and SACD as examples. When it comes to surround multichannel, is there one you would put your money into over another? Put another way, if all three surround recording formats were available for an album that you want for your collection, which one would you choose?
Not Bart but......................
1. Why is there a question of where "you would put your money into over another?" The equipment for playback can be a universal player that will do all.
2. AFAIK, DVD-A is dead and SACD is fading as physical formats.
3. Identical content is almost never available on all three (or even two) formats. Content among them will differ in availability as well as masterings.
4. Consequently, you should be able to play any and all formats so that you can get what content you want.
Reply With Quote
  #8  
Old 04-13-2021, 03:00 PM
bart's Avatar
bart bart is offline
Life is beautiful
 
Join Date: Jan 2011
Location: Belgium
Posts: 19,867
Default

Not Kal but... ()

I will always prefer a good recording in 16/44.1 over a hi-res recording that was less well done.

I have quite a few SACDs from the Aliavox label (Jordi Savall's label) that I prefer in stereo over the version in 5.0. They're mostly older recordings (70s till 90s) that simply sound a bit artificial in surround. As Kal mentioned there are more examples of this.

SACD, DVD-A (I recently bought a new remaster that actually does sound good, a Moody Blues reissue, but new DVD-As are very rare) or Blu-ray audio: it depends on the recording!

Most of the best multichannel recordings of today are downloads.
I still own a universal disc player, also for my movies (mostly concert Blu-rays), but I see myself only downloading and streaming in the future.
__________________
Stereo: Hegel H590, Grimm Audio MU1, Mola Mola Tambaqui, Burmester 948 - V3 & V6 racks, Vivid Audio G2 Giyas, REL Carbon Special (pair), Silent Angel Bonn N8 Ethernet Switch & Forester F1, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse IC and SE SC, Furutech Digiflux
AV: Hegel C-53, Marantz AV8802A, Oppo BDP-203EU, Pioneer Kuro 60", Vivid Audio C1 & V1w's, Wireworld Platinum Eclipse, SE & E
Second system (veranda): Halgorythme preamp and monoblocks, Burmester 061, Avalon Avatar, Sharkwire & Wireworld cables
Reply With Quote
  #9  
Old 04-13-2021, 04:13 PM
Kal Rubinson Kal Rubinson is offline
Guest
 
Join Date: Aug 2010
Posts: 2,588
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by bart View Post
Most of the best multichannel recordings of today are downloads.
I still own a universal disc player, also for my movies (mostly concert Blu-rays), but I see myself only downloading and streaming in the future.
Amen.
Reply With Quote
  #10  
Old 04-13-2021, 08:25 PM
FreddieFerric's Avatar
FreddieFerric FreddieFerric is offline
Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2018
Location: NOLA
Posts: 2,296
Default

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kal Rubinson View Post
I do not think that I can offer much help on "music recording formats that allow one to hear old favorites in surround." To me, this implies taking original stereo/mono recordings and up-mixing them to multichannel. I let the record companies do this but, personally, do not care for it.

I have little interest in anything other than discrete multichannel recordings made from discrete original tracks.

P.S. I write for Stereophile only. I do post here and on other forums for my personal entertainment.
Interesting statement Kal. Would I be correct to assume that a catalog such as the Steve Wilson "Yes" remixes into multi-channel on Blu-Ray doesn't appeal to you?
__________________
McIntosh MA8000; McIntosh MC1502; Canton Vento Reference 1 DC; E.A.T. E-Flat; Soundsmith Paua Mk II; Technics SL 1210 MK5; Audio Technica AT-150 MLX; Tascam BR-20; Teac X1000R; Pioneer RT-707; Oppo UDP 205; Denon DCD A-100; HP All-In-One Touchscreen Server; JRiver MC 28; Woo Audio WA6; Shure SRH 1840; SVS SB 1000; Jolida 502BRC; Jolida JD9; VPI 16.5 RCM; Wireworld Oasis 8 Speaker Cables; Audoquest Columbia 72 DBS IC's; Panamax PM-5400 (source components only)
Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Forum Jump

Audioaficionado.org tested by Norton Internet Security

All times are GMT -4. The time now is 12:26 PM.



Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.10
Copyright ©2000 - 2024, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
©Copyright 2009-2023 AudioAficionado.org.Privately owned, All Rights Reserved.
Audio Aficionado Sponsors
AudioAficionado Subscriber
AudioAficionado Subscriber
Inspire By Dennis Had
Inspire By Dennis Had
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Harmonic Resolution Systems
Wyred4Sound
Wyred4Sound
Dragonfire Acoustics
Dragonfire Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
GIK Acoustics
Esoteric
Esoteric
AC Infinity
AC Infinity
JL Audio
JL Audio
Add Powr
Add Powr
Accuphase - Soulution
Accuphase - Soulution
Audio by E
Audio by E
Canton
Canton
Bryston
Bryston
WireWorld Cables
WireWorld Cables
Stillpoints
Stillpoints
Bricasti Design
Bricasti Design
Furutech
Furutech
Shunyata Research
Shunyata Research
Legend Audio & Video
Legend Audio & Video