New MCD12000

[brownbear]

I personally like the meters on these types of units. I use my D1100 in DAC mode and the needles can tell you a lot about the recording. If they are dancing around prettily, then some love was put into the mastering. If the needles are pegged, then you're listening to that compressed brickwalled stuff. The readouts might prompt me to look into the mastering a bit to see who did it and what's up.

[Vintage Pete]

Originally Posted by Maks

The C1000 also used to have a tape loop that the C12000 doesn't have. Time marches on and there's absolutely nothing wrong w/vintage equipment, but the amount of people buying a MCD12000 to hook up to a preamp that doesn't have a remote control probably numbers in the single digits.

Single digits? Doesn't Mc stuff last a long time? Incidentally, it wasn't long after I bought my C40 that the C42 was released with remote.

But I get it, I'm not in the same league at all. What's one customer?

[Maks]

I don't know what the argument is. I don't like that new Mc preamps don't have a tape loop, but it is what it is. I realize most people aren't using tape decks in 2022. I don't think that makes me beneath anyone or that McIntosh looks down on me or doesn't care about "one customer".

[Vintage Pete]

Originally Posted by Charles

...The C1000 (I owned one) employed 4 separate digital volume controls because it was true dual mono and balanced. Two for each channel. I can tell you that your MDA1000 did not employ this.

Charles....FWIW, I learned from my recent repair experience that the MDA1000 utilizes (4) Burr-Brown DACs per channel (2+ and 2- DACs) in each channel in a balanced configuration. (Total of 8). Each of these (left and right) banks then feed separate left and right balanced level controls. The level control is encoder driven. It's not clear from the block diagrams of either unit how many actual volume control circuits there are, but the MDA1000 does have balanced topology.

[Vintage Pete]

Originally Posted by Maks

I don't know what the argument is. I don't like that new Mc preamps don't have a tape loop, but it is what it is. I realize most people aren't using tape decks in 2022. I don't think that makes me beneath anyone or that McIntosh looks down on me or doesn't care about "one customer".

Yeah, maybe that was a little bit over the top on my part But it does rather feel like they're taking more and more things out and kind of forcing us to abandon certain things if we want to move up. I too like the tape loop and/or processor loop. I have two tape decks, one doesn't work and the other I don't use all that much. But, I do want to keep them. I use some processors too, and those are getting pushed aside. Would I decide one day to go a totally different direction? Who knows. But I don't have that kind of money anyway. So for now, I'm still pretty happy and my system sounds great.

[Maks]

I hear ya, that's where I'm at with my C2300. I'm 100% happy w/it, but I'd be lying if I wouldn't think of upgrading if there was something like an all analog C2750 (I'm not hating on the 2700's DAC, I just don't want to pay for something I wouldn't use) or if the C12000 had tone controls. I could probably live without the tape loop and use headphones directly on my decks when recording to adjust them. Sometimes the older gear has features the new gear doesn't and vice versa.

[prepress]

Originally Posted by Maks

I hear ya, that's where I'm at with my C2300. I'm 100% happy w/it, but I'd be lying if I wouldn't think of upgrading if there was something like an all analog C2750 (I'm not hating on the 2700's DAC, I just don't want to pay for something I wouldn't use) or if the C12000 had tone controls. I could probably live without the tape loop and use headphones directly on my decks when recording to adjust them. Sometimes the older gear has features the new gear doesn't and vice versa.

Could the "SRVR" input/output on your 2300 serve as a tape loop in a pinch?

[Maks]

The SRVR input/output is the tape loop on the C2300. The newer gear doesn't have this feature which is part of what puts me off from "upgrading".

[Charles]

Originally Posted by Vintage Pete

Charles....FWIW, I learned from my recent repair experience that the MDA1000 utilizes (4) Burr-Brown DACs per channel (2+ and 2- DACs) in each channel in a balanced configuration. (Total of 8). Each of these (left and right) banks then feed separate left and right balanced level controls. The level control is encoder driven. It's not clear from the block diagrams of either unit how many actual volume control circuits there are, but the MDA1000 does have balanced topology.

Pete it's a unit for the ages as is the 3500. As good as anything on today's market. When I look at the mags I see manufacturers' introduce new gear mainly to raise prices, IMO. If it's not super expensive it can't be high end, right?

One thing I would point out is how some high end manufacturers are finally eschewing the minimalist approach. Read RH's review of the Chord's. He's using them for his reference and finally has adequate power to his subs. These amps come with full range of protection circuits and are extremely flexible in their design.

Mac has never been one to go total minimalist in their designs. A well designed meter or level control in the right unit can be the feature that the buyer wants, i.e. meets the need.

Personally, I don't think a volume control, tone control, balance control, or meter has any sonic detriment (or extremely little).

However for me, I'm an audio purist. I don't even use the balance control. But I must have accurate meters and protection circuits becasue I like it loud at 3 am. I had it to 86% on the volume on The Rascals download last night. The meter was on about 200 watts with 300 watt peaks. Never heard anything like these 3500s'.

Best

Charles

[Vintage Pete]

Originally Posted by Charles

Pete it's a unit for the ages as is the 3500. As good as anything on today's market. When I look at the mags I see manufacturers' introduce new gear mainly to raise prices, IMO. If it's not super expensive it can't be high end, right?

One thing I would point out is how some high end manufacturers are finally eschewing the minimalist approach. Read RH's review of the Chord's. He's using them for his reference and finally has adequate power to his subs. These amps come with full range of protection circuits and are extremely flexible in their design.

Mac has never been one to go total minimalist in their designs. A well designed meter or level control in the right unit can be the feature that the buyer wants, i.e. meets the need.

Personally, I don't think a volume control, tone control, balance control, or meter has any sonic detriment (or extremely little).

However for me, I'm an audio purist. I don't even use the balance control. But I must have accurate meters and protection circuits becasue I like it loud at 3 am. I had it to 86% on the volume on The Rascals download last night. The meter was on about 200 watts with 300 watt peaks. Never heard anything like these 3500s'.

Best

Charles

Charles.....it's all good my friend! I checked out a pair of the new 3500's during my recent visit to Audio Classics ("McIntosh plant two" ) I didn't listen to them, I just stood there and admired them. Ryan and I briefly discussed the new C12000; he didn't have one in the store and said when he does, they leave as quickly as they arrive.

I do agree McIntosh has really pulled off a feat with the pricing on both the MCD12000 and C12000....and yes also the new 3500. While certainly not cheap (way over my budget at this time) when they were introduced I said that the prices on the C12000 and MCD12000 were really not as bad as I expected.

I have to admit I really find it hard to look away from the C12000. Since I purchased my first MDA1000 from Ivan, I've considered a number of times jumping into a second hand C1000. I have to say though, that the physical depth of these units is really a problem for my setup. They are deep!! I see that the depth of the C12000 chassis is much more manageable, and it would be feasible in my setup. Unfortunately, the price is not...

Speaking of large, I still have a huge McIntosh carton sitting in my living room, containing my "spare" MDA1000 that I purchased from AC. It arrived just over a week ago. I have to admit, it may have been a tad bit crazy to fork over the cash for a second one, but the price was very good and I have to admit I don't mind having two of these beauties in my stable. If my primary unit ever needs repair again, I need not do without. My primary unit is still working perfectly and is still in pristine cosmetic condition.

As soon as I fully recover from Covid, I'll be taking the spare down to my storage unit.