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  #21  
Old 10-13-2021, 08:52 PM
Charles Charles is online now
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Peter I believe you are relying too much on the review. This thread began with a question concerning the best Mac amp. It has evolved into a question of Sabrina X bass. Charles
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  #22  
Old 10-17-2021, 01:21 PM
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Bob Bubeck Bob Bubeck is offline
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Not knowing whether or not the OP has taken delivery of the Sabrina X's, if bass is a concern Yvettes might address the issue and lessen the hunger for subs in a cost effective way, depending upon one's room, listening predilections, etc. Back in the day, I opted for the Yvettes over the original Sabrinas in part because of bass performance. The OP's MC452 would drive and sound great with either speaker very well, but an MC462 has more 'grip' at the low end. See my 'solution' the question below. For what it is worth.

YMMV.

Bob
__________________________________________________ _____
Sources: Clearaudio Jubilee MC/Clearaudio Innovation Wood TT w/Universal Arm 9”; MCT500 CD/SACD transport; OPPO 205; NAD C446 Internet Tuner; Nakamichi 670ZX cassette deck. Electronics: MacIntosh C2700 preamp w/DA2 and MC462 power amp. Speakers: Wilson Yvettes Headphones: MacIntosh MHP 1000 Interconnects: Transparent G5 balanced and speaker cables; MCT - MCT500 -> C2700.Power cords: Transparent (on preamp, power amp and transport). Surge protected. Record and CD maintenance : Clearaudio Double Matrix Professional Sonic RCM; L’Art du Son CD treatment.
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  #23  
Old 10-17-2021, 02:49 PM
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Thanks everyone - Did the demo with the MC452 and the speakers were terrific - I also did the MC205 and was quite surprised ... it lacked some punch but by no means was disappointing - For simple listening or watching Netflix in fact it was a pleasant experience - If I do go the SabrinaX route I'll use the MC452 but if didn't have already have it the MC205 could have been something to think about

Either way these speakers need a sub .... basically nothing below 50 Hz and that wouldn't do Tony Williams or the Star Ship Enterprise justice

Having had Revel Ultima Salon 2s in my theater the last 17 years I've been accustomed to very musical bass for music and nice rumble for movies ... no sub required in my room

I'm still waiting for the dealer top get in a Wilson center channel and in the mean time the search continues
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Revel Salon Ultima 2 Towers with Voice Center
McIntosh MX150 Processor - MC452 - MC301 - MC205 amps with MPC 1500 Power Control - MT 10 Turntable - MP 100 Phono Preamp - D100 DAC ~ Auralic Bridge - Synology NASS
Epson Powerlite Projector - Stewart Grey Hawk Screen with a pile of GIK Panels and a tangle of Wireworld Silver cables
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  #24  
Old 10-18-2021, 12:55 AM
Charles Charles is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all2ears View Post
Thanks everyone - Did the demo with the MC452 and the speakers were terrific - I also did the MC205 and was quite surprised ... it lacked some punch but by no means was disappointing - For simple listening or watching Netflix in fact it was a pleasant experience - If I do go the SabrinaX route I'll use the MC452 but if didn't have already have it the MC205 could have been something to think about

Either way these speakers need a sub .... basically nothing below 50 Hz and that wouldn't do Tony Williams or the Star Ship Enterprise justice

Having had Revel Ultima Salon 2s in my theater the last 17 years I've been accustomed to very musical bass for music and nice rumble for movies ... no sub required in my room

I'm still waiting for the dealer top get in a Wilson center channel and in the mean time the search continues
all2ears, I believe it is accurate that Revel 2's go significantly lower than SabrinaX. I believe they are the Revel flagship speaker. I have heard nothing but compliments about this speaker. The SabrinaX is the entry Wilson.

I think you will discover that SabrinaX will go significantly lower than 50 Hz but it will not match the Salon 2's. However, I believe you will discover the Wilson has hidden strengths the Salon 2 will not have.

It takes months of listening and tweaking to get the best out of the system you are proposing to buy. I place some value in a showroom demo but not very much.

I agree that for home theater you need a sub with SabrinaX. Every speaker company has a sound signature. Obviously you have heard something you like with Wilson's otherwise you would not have posted this thread.

There is a difference between the best amp and enough amp. Is the 452 enough amp? Yes it is adequate to obtain probably 90% out of SabrinaX. The best amp (without going overboard) would be a pair of Mac 611's. These retail for 15,000.00. Then using your 452 to drive the Watchdogs, I believe you would discover that a system like that would significantly surpass the Salon 2's even with a full Revel subwoofer system and amp. I believe you would run the Watchdogs using the LP crossover frequency probably 50 Hz 18 dB/octave and the SabrinaX full range. They will not overload.

If funds are a problem, use your 452 with the SabrinaX first. Get to know your Wilsons in your home, first. Then upgrade to the full system gradually as funds allow. The SabrinaX is a Wilson. Wilson does not make several lines of speakers as do almost all other companies. At this price point SabrinaX is the very best speaker Wilson can make.

Wilson has the technology to produce nearly a million dollar speaker. Much of that technology has gone into SabrinaX. Very few speaker manufacturers possess this amount of technology.

I wish you the best of luck in your quest for better sound. I believe you are on the right path with Wilson and McIntosh.

Best

Charles

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Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: Plinth of X material built by Wilson with rubber cushions or cushions of V material to get my Thor off the floor. Plinth supported by Wilson Acoustic Diodes.
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport. Wilson Audio Acoustic Diodes for XVX Chronosonic. WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection.
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MVP 851 DVD player
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP 881 BR player; MCT 500 transport; MVP 851 DVD player
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house.

Last edited by Charles; 10-18-2021 at 01:10 AM.
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  #25  
Old 10-18-2021, 10:21 AM
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all2ears all2ears is offline
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Thanks for your input Charles - Way ... make that way way back at the beginning of the thread I mentioned the speaker switch because I was downsizing my house and giving up a dedicated home theater room ..... AARP, my cardiologist and the grand kids agree with the plan - Searching for a speaker that can sound great with a smaller foot print is the goal .... I'm just not sure a smaller speaker and then adding a sub woofer meets those guidelines ... dual Mono amps (a personal favorite in my younger days) is definitely a stretch

I do believe you have to live with a speaker in your day to day life to really appreciate it - Years back I had the Wilson Watt Puppy for a week audition and enjoyed them a lot but lack of a coherent center channel at the time left them coming up short ... I'm hoping this time around their new center will seal the deal .... the sub is a drawback I think I can over come if I can talk the wife into giving the China Cabinet floor space
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Revel Salon Ultima 2 Towers with Voice Center
McIntosh MX150 Processor - MC452 - MC301 - MC205 amps with MPC 1500 Power Control - MT 10 Turntable - MP 100 Phono Preamp - D100 DAC ~ Auralic Bridge - Synology NASS
Epson Powerlite Projector - Stewart Grey Hawk Screen with a pile of GIK Panels and a tangle of Wireworld Silver cables
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  #26  
Old 10-18-2021, 10:53 AM
Charles Charles is online now
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Quote:
Originally Posted by all2ears View Post
Thanks for your input Charles - Way ... make that way way back at the beginning of the thread I mentioned the speaker switch because I was downsizing my house and giving up a dedicated home theater room ..... AARP, my cardiologist and the grand kids agree with the plan - Searching for a speaker that can sound great with a smaller foot print is the goal .... I'm just not sure a smaller speaker and then adding a sub woofer meets those guidelines ... dual Mono amps (a personal favorite in my younger days) is definitely a stretch

I do believe you have to live with a speaker in your day to day life to really appreciate it - Years back I had the Wilson Watt Puppy for a week audition and enjoyed them a lot but lack of a coherent center channel at the time left them coming up short ... I'm hoping this time around their new center will seal the deal .... the sub is a drawback I think I can over come if I can talk the wife into giving the China Cabinet floor space
all2ears, thanks for the reminder. Many folks recommend stereo subs. I don't dispute or argue this point. However, currently I am having a plinth of X material constructed by Wilson for my Thor. My Thor will set horizontally equidistant between my XVX and in the same plane. The plinth will be supported by the new acoustic diodes with either V material or rubber for cushions. I run the system LP only, no HP, crossover 30 Hz 18 dB octave. I want to get my Thor off the floor. Currently it is setting on the floor supported by rubber mats.

Personally, I would rather have this arrangement than stereo subs, but that's just me. My point is that with a Watchdog, you may obtain superb results with a mono sub.

I have found that everything makes a difference with a sub system. You can hear cables, amps, IC's, power cords, i.e., "everything". A single mono Watchdog with SabrinaX would be a dream system for almost anybody. Use your 452 with SabrinaX and a 611 for your Watchdog. I can almost guarantee that you will be extremely satisfied. Never use a HP with Wilsons if you are using their subs.

You could save substantial money by forgoing a center channel and placing a Watchdog in its place. I am more than satisfied with watching a movie or a music video absent a center channel. I wouldn't dream of moving my Thor for a center channel.

Again best of luck. I hope I have given you food for thought. I will post a pic(s) of my new plinth when it arrives. You can see pics of my current system under "Charles System" in the Member System Forum or the McIntosh "Show us your System". I couldn't be more satisfied with the results I get for watching a movie or DVD music video. I have lots of them, watch them frequently.

Best

Charles

Last edited by Charles; 10-18-2021 at 11:06 AM.
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