Wilson LōKē - Wilson's smallest subwoofer

[dkorbal]

Originally Posted by FreddieFerric

The sound quality of the LoKe will ultimately drive sales and if it doesn't measure up, then sales will surely suffer. In the end, the marketplace will decide its fate.

+1 I couldn’t have stated it better.

[Tullman]

Originally Posted by audioguy3107

I’d probably have to say his thoughts are something like this…..”Ouch, I just bought an $8000 subwoofer with a $300 Parts Express plate amp.”

Yep, that’s it.

[radio times]

Mind you,it's got more tuning's than a tuning fork. It's a micro adjustin' mother.

[W9TR]

While it’s easy and fair game to dog Wilson for the plate amp thing (see my earlier post), it will be interesting to see how LOKE stacks up against the hard laws of physics that define how subwoofers actually perform.

One hint in their specs is

Effective piston area 21.75 in^2

Effective displacement 33.42 in^3

Divide effective displacement by effective piston area and you get Xmax, excursion.

Xmax=1.54”

That’s a very competitive number, so Wilson has done some real work on their driver. This baby will go loud and low.

The real test will be the distortion at 20 Hz. Wilson doesn’t specify this, (they specify THD at 100 Hz) so this will be one of the defining areas where Wilson has the capability to excel where others have failed.

Subwoofer distortion is devilishly hard to get low, and contributes to the notion of ‘speed’ in subwoofers, which is in itself a misnomer. High distortion in subwoofers manifests itself in a sense of sloppiness, blurred transients, etc. which some have referred to as ‘slow’.

[bart]

^^^^^Good post!

[Charles]

I had my audio buddy over several days ago. He's about 25 years younger. He noticed the improvement in my bass with the addition of my plinth immediately. We played Cowboy Junkie which has a subsonic bass note ( Mining for Gold, Walking After Midnight, 1.2 watts on the Thor, never meant to be heard) on a couple of cuts that virtually no sub would pick up other than a Thor. We played Adelle 21 which he knew well. Also Casey Abrams Jazz. Round Midnight also has one of those 1.2 watt notes. It's not just absolute output. It's the subs ability to catch that extremely low very low in volume subsonic note. Wilson subs are unparalled at this.

At the end his comment was "fantastic!" I also played "Wooly Bully" for a hoot at volume 70. It was clean and quite loud to say the least. This cleaned your ears out.

A properly integrated sub(s) makes a huge difference in any system. Wilson's are expensive. My Thor tops out at 70K. A REL 25 Reference is 7.5K. It obviously has more output than a Loke, a topline amp, and exudes quality.

But it is not made for a Wilson. It is a sealed system. The LoKe is a port. There are very few ported subs out there. Most are sealed. I could see using a REL or Gotham with a Magico more than a Wilson. There are subtle differences between sealed and ported bass.

Wilson's are extremely difficult to overload and low distortion. My 1.25KW gives up before my Thor. It puts out 1500 watts. I have seen the power guard flash once.

I think compatibility gets lost in these discussions. I am extremely grateful to match my XVX with an appropriate Wilson sub. It would never in a million years blend or perform as well with a REL six pack or Twin Gotham's. The difference would be immediately noticeable.

Best

Charles

__________________________________________________ _
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: McIntosh MC3500 MK II mono power amp, one per channel; custom granite slabs to set my MC3500 MKII’s; 3 AS125 custom made McIntosh amps stands
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport. Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic. WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection. New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes. Thor is now off my floor.
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made granite slabs. McIntosh 3500 MKII's have shipped.
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC); custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; MR87 tuner; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.

[PeterMusic]

Originally Posted by Charles

A properly integrated sub(s) makes a huge difference in any system. Wilson's are expensive. My Thor tops out at 70K. A REL 25 Reference is 7.5K. It obviously has more output than a Loke, a topline amp, and exudes quality.

But it is not made for a Wilson. It is a sealed system. The LoKe is a port. There are very few ported subs out there. Most are sealed. I could see using a REL or Gotham with a Magico more than a Wilson. There are subtle differences between sealed and ported bass.

Wilson's are extremely difficult to overload and low distortion. My 1.25KW gives up before my Thor. It puts out 1500 watts. I have seen the power guard flash once.

I think compatibility gets lost in these discussions. I am extremely grateful to match my XVX with an appropriate Wilson sub. It would never in a million years blend or perform as well with a REL six pack or Twin Gotham's. The difference would be immediately noticeable.

Best

Charles

I agree compatibility is an extremely important point, and is thrown into sharp relief by your Wilson and Magico references. Both are among the very best, but they have dramatically different flavors--kind of like Batman vs Superman (haha). I would be surprised if there are Wilson owners for whom Magico is a close second in personal preference in sound, or vice versa

[j3brow]

Originally Posted by Charles

I had my audio buddy over several days ago. He's about 25 years younger. He noticed the improvement in my bass with the addition of my plinth immediately. We played Cowboy Junkie which has a subsonic bass note ( Mining for Gold, Walking After Midnight, 1.2 watts on the Thor, never meant to be heard) on a couple of cuts that virtually no sub would pick up other than a Thor. We played Adelle 21 which he knew well. Also Casey Abrams Jazz. Round Midnight also has one of those 1.2 watt notes. It's not just absolute output. It's the subs ability to catch that extremely low very low in volume subsonic note. Wilson subs are unparalled at this.

At the end his comment was "fantastic!" I also played "Wooly Bully" for a hoot at volume 70. It was clean and quite loud to say the least. This cleaned your ears out.

A properly integrated sub(s) makes a huge difference in any system. Wilson's are expensive. My Thor tops out at 70K. A REL 25 Reference is 7.5K. It obviously has more output than a Loke, a topline amp, and exudes quality.

But it is not made for a Wilson. It is a sealed system. The LoKe is a port. There are very few ported subs out there. Most are sealed. I could see using a REL or Gotham with a Magico more than a Wilson. There are subtle differences between sealed and ported bass.

Wilson's are extremely difficult to overload and low distortion. My 1.25KW gives up before my Thor. It puts out 1500 watts. I have seen the power guard flash once.

I think compatibility gets lost in these discussions. I am extremely grateful to match my XVX with an appropriate Wilson sub. It would never in a million years blend or perform as well with a REL six pack or Twin Gotham's. The difference would be immediately noticeable.

Best

Charles

__________________________________________________ _
Charles Updated System: Wilson McIntosh Audioquest
New gear on order: McIntosh MC3500 MK II mono power amp, one per channel; custom granite slabs to set my MC3500 MKII’s; 3 AS125 custom made McIntosh amps stands
Most recent updates: Latest is the last one posted: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; new subwoofer crossover; new Galaxy Grey Thors Hammer; Wilson Pedestals; heating and cooling completely reworked and reinsulated resulting in a much quieter, cooler, and more efficient room (cost about 10,000.00). McIntosh MCT 500 SACD/CD transport. Wilson Audio Acoustic Diode for XVX Chronosonic. WEL Signature digital Coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection replacing the optical connection. New plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes. Thor is now off my floor.
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made granite slabs. McIntosh 3500 MKII's have shipped.
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCT500 SACD/CD Transport, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic; custom made Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC); custom plinth of X material with Wilson Acoustic Diode feet
Cables main system: Audioquest WEL Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); WEL Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; WEL Signature digital coaxial cable for MVP 881/D1100 digital connection; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for MVP 851 DVD player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Audioquest Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for MR87 tuner
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Isolation: Wilson Pedestals for D1100; MVP881 BR player; MCT500 transport; MR87 tuner; plinth for Thor subwoofer made of X material with the Wilson Acoustic Diodes
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.

Excellent points. Maybe someday there will be a Thor or SubSonic in my room. Is there a way to tailor the sub gain via the Wilson crossover?

[Charles]

jbrow, yes the crossover comes with an output knob. I am glad you and Peter recognize that Wilsons are different. With my Maxx3 I employed a HP/LP configuration. I ignored Wilson's clear advice not to do so. I was so convinced of the folly of running the Maxx3 full range and the Thor on LP only so that both were independent, I didn't even experiment.

About 8 months later I did experiment, and the results were amazing. The Maxx and Thor sounded light years better running the Maxx full range and the Thor on LP only.

I would never dream of running my XVX anything other than full range. The LoKe might be different with the smaller speakers, especially a Tune Tot.

However, there's a lot of mystery with Wilson. Things that can't easily be explained. I think they are the only speaker where their subs clearly sound better running LP only. I know of no other speaker manufacturer that recommends this.

My point is that the LoKe is absolutely made to be the best sub available for Tune Tot, SabrinaX, Yevette, and possibly Sasha DAW. I could and probably would choose a Watchdog for a Sasha. Many speaker manufacturers make a sub(s) but their hearts are not in it. The commitment isn't there. Therefore REL and JL provide an extremely valuable viable alternative. They achieve excellent results with almost any speaker.

However, Wilson subs have a heritage equal to Wilson mains. Dave Wilson loved subs. Wilson owners are extremely fortunate to have a company that makes their subs the equal of their mains. The commitment is there with Wilson and their subs.

Best

Charles

[marsalis]

There hardly any ported subs because it makes no sense to build one. A ported design will have a much steeper bass roll-off, which is precisely what you don’t want in a sub, compared to a sealed one. Efficiency is not an issue due to the built-in amplification and EQ. Compatibility has nothing to do with that, a good sub is a good sub, and they are typically sealed for a reason.