Higher End DACs

[audio bill]

The Schiit Yggdrasil has just gained a further performance enhancement with the introduction of their new Unison USB board. It now comes standard on new Yggdrasils along with a commensurate price increase and is available as an installed upgrade on existing models for $200. It's reported to be quite revolutionary and claims to be their best sounding input while that used to be AES/EBU. It doesn't use any existing off the shelf USB receiver as most other manufacturers use, rather it's a unique proprietary design.

[W9TR]

Bill - thanks, I knew that was coming. Glad to see it’s here.

Marc - there are a lot of factors that add up to the whole of a product. There are big differences in the conversion approach used, digital filters, analog electronics, power supplies, and casework. That, and the fact that perfect technical performance (ex: Benchmark DAC 3 HGC) does not necessarily make for the best listening experience.

We are in an audio renaissance- these are the good old days - right now! With so many great DAC’s out there it’s hard to go wrong.

After buying and listening to a bunch of DAC’s I know what I like and can choose accordingly.

Tom

[Levitator]

Originally Posted by ufguy73

right now, C1100/611s/B&W800 d3...I don't know how those pieces would be considered in a digital setup...but something about sticking a 2k-5k Lumin/Mytek/PS/Auralic/Aurender - just didn't seem as 'sexy' to me as thinking about some of these other pieces...but maybe that is more silly of me than not!

yes, the logic that for a spinner to be excellent it must have an excellent DAC is why I am still attracted to the Esoteric brand even when looking for a DAC. I just wasn't sure if spinning really wasn't any sort of factor if there were other brands/platforms (being more purpose built and/or more of my spend dollars just going to the streamer/DAC functionality vs a spinner/DAC) that could do better with the questions solely oriented that way.

I have a similar system to you (C1100, MC1.2KW’s and 800D3’s and my advice would be to try 2 or 3 options in your own system at different price points so you can hear in your own set up the differences - there is no point in my opinion trying to listen to different DACS in other / dealer systems.

FWIW - I went from using the DAC in the C2500 to a K-01X to being fortunate enough to pick up a mint pair of used D1’s (Esoteric) to match with my Esoteric streamer and have been extremely happy, particularly since adding an external clock. Each has added something to my system, albeit to a lesser degree as I’ve moved up in price. From my I’ve read, absolutely worth trying the Schiit or similar plus some higher price point options so you can decide for yourself.

Hope this helps....

[W9TR]

Great advice to try a couple of different DAC’s. Having a relationship with a dealer that can loan you gear and taking advantage of in-home trials for the stuff like Schiit is the way to go.

[ufguy73]

Originally Posted by Levitator

I have a similar system to you (C1100, MC1.2KW’s and 800D3’s and my advice would be to try 2 or 3 options in your own system at different price points so you can hear in your own set up the differences - there is no point in my opinion trying to listen to different DACS in other / dealer systems.

FWIW - I went from using the DAC in the C2500 to a K-01X to being fortunate enough to pick up a mint pair of used D1’s (Esoteric) to match with my Esoteric streamer and have been extremely happy, particularly since adding an external clock. Each has added something to my system, albeit to a lesser degree as I’ve moved up in price. From my I’ve read, absolutely worth trying the Schiit or similar plus some higher price point options so you can decide for yourself.

Hope this helps....

Originally Posted by W9TR

Great advice to try a couple of different DAC’s. Having a relationship with a dealer that can loan you gear and taking advantage of in-home trials for the stuff like Schiit is the way to go.

agreed - I think this makes the most sense (i.e. try a couple at various price points in my own system).

I am having a tough time finding a dealer around me for the higher end pieces - can anyone recommend a trusted dealer of Esoteric/DCS/etc that might work with my on a longer distance basis?

thanks!

[PeterMusic]

My Schiit Yggdrasil is great, but as you can see from my signature, I have a more modest system than yours.

With your system, I would not hesitate to spend much more than the Yggy. Depending on dealers, I'd take a listen to the Berkeley Alpha Reference 3, the EMM Labs DV2, whatever DAC fits your price point from dCS.

[Charles]

Certainly the D1100 is on par with the rest of your Mac equipment. Mac has been making DAC's since 1984. Mac is therefore not new to the digital arena.

I think you sound like an audiophile that wants to branch out from Mac. Nothing wrong with that. Try something new. I can guarantee that what you have now you won't have 5 years from now if you are young and in to the high end. It's what makes the hobby fun, to explore, and gain experience with new gear.

When I was younger I bought Krell, Theta, Musical Fidelity, Crown, Jeff Roland, Ayre, Marantz, Pioneer Elite, Phillips, Sony, KK, MIT and I am sure I am forgetting some. It's part of the journey. I enjoyed all the gear immensely but find myself at the end back where I first began, with Mac.

I think you are on the right track to experiment and enjoy the journey.

Charles

____________________
Charles Updated System
Most recent updates: AQ Diamond USB replaces AQ Coffee; Wilson Audio Specialties Alexx replaced by Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Amps: McIntosh 1.25KW’s (3) set on floor on custom made cultured marble slabs
Preamp and DAC: McIntosh D1100
Sources: McIntosh MCD1100 SACD player, MVP881 BR player, MVP851 DVD player, MR87 tuner, Marantz 510LV Laser Disc player, ASUS laptop USB (JRiver Media Center 23)
Speakers: Wilson Audio Specialties XVX Chronosonic
Sub-woofer: Wilson Audio Specialties Thor’s Hammer (1) horizontal lie and Wilson Watch Controller (abbr: WC)
Cables main system: Audioquest Wel Signature speaker cables and balanced IC (preamp to amps); Wel Signature AES/EBU balanced digital IC for CD playback; Audioquest Diamond optical (1) for tuner, (1) for BR player, and (1) for LD player for total of (3); Diamond USB cable; McIntosh MCT cable for SACD playback; Dragon power cords (5 HC cords and 3 source cords for total of 8); Thunder HC power cord for tuner; cables for DVD player not listed
Cables subwoofer system: Audioquest Redwood speaker cable (1); Wolf balanced subwoofer IC from WC to amp; Wind balanced IC from preamp to WC; Hurricane HC (2) and Dragon HC (1) power cords
Power conditioners: Audioquest Niagara 7000 (1) and Niagara 5000 (3); (4) dedicated 20-amp lines with no. 10 wire straight out of fuse box
Cabinet: Double Custom Woodwork & Design (CWD) solid walnut cabinet on large casters; holds all sources and preamp; also, Niagara 7000; 11 feet minimum distance from speakers
Acoustic Treatments: Room and Echo Tunes enough to turn the room into a virtual anechoic chamber if desired; however, at present my room is significantly reflective giving me a bright, vibrant, dynamic, highly resolving, smooth sound free of harshness and grain and perfect for my taste; zero slap echo; gorgeous midrange
AC: Dedicated to this room only, an ultra-high efficiency and quiet recently installed Ruud split system 3-ton heat pump.
Room (mancave): 40’L x 15.5’W A-frame; max ceiling height 8’ min 5’; wall within wall construction built of 2 x 6’s; built over garage with custom hardwood floor with gym seal with over 40 Lowes stiffened wooden I-beams supporting floor; complete isolation from rest of house

[crwilli]

I recently auditioned an Aqua La Scala MKII (~$7,700) in my system. It is a only a DAC.

In direct comparison to my K-03x with Cybershaft OP17 clock, I could only detect improved sound in complex orchestral sections of some Mahler symphonies. The La Scala was cleaner and clearer. For the other 99% of the music I used to compare, there were no audible differences. Certainly not enough for me to give up the spinner in the K-03x for the La Scala.

That experience has caused me to pause my search for a better DAC. They were so close that I now realize I have to audition any replacement in my system to be sure I get an improvement. That is nearly impossible. I was very fortunate to have a dealer willing to lend me the La Scala. Very doubtful I can find another dealer willing to lend me an MSB, LampiZator, dCS etc... As a result, I feel stuck.

[Charles]

Originally Posted by crwilli

I recently auditioned an Aqua La Scala MKII (~$7,700) in my system. It is a only a DAC.

In direct comparison to my K-03x with Cybershaft OP17 clock, I could only detect improved sound in complex orchestral sections of some Mahler symphonies. The La Scala was cleaner and clearer. For the other 99% of the music I used to compare, there were no audible differences. Certainly not enough for me to give up the spinner in the K-03x for the La Scala.

That experience has caused me to pause my search for a better DAC. They were so close that I now realize I have to audition any replacement in my system to be sure I get an improvement. That is nearly impossible. I was very fortunate to have a dealer willing to lend me the La Scala. Very doubtful I can find another dealer willing to lend me an MSB, LampiZator, dCS etc... As a result, I feel stuck.

You know, I don't think you are "stuck" at all. I have always gone for the speaker. You are fortunate in that you have found your speaker and amps, now you can concentrate on the DAC. Why dCS? In the Esoteric line there are much better DAC's. If you like the sound of Esoteric move up the line. You have a long way to go to get to a Grandioso DAC, Master Clock, and Transport.

I really like Esoteric Digital. They have obviously concentrated a lot of their prowess into their digital line.

[nicoff]

Originally Posted by ufguy73

agreed - I think this makes the most sense (i.e. try a couple at various price points in my own system).



I am having a tough time finding a dealer around me for the higher end pieces - can anyone recommend a trusted dealer of Esoteric/DCS/etc that might work with my on a longer distance basis?



thanks!

Where are you located? There is a big audio show this weekend in the Tampa Bay Area. I am sure that you would be able to listen to whatever you want in whatever price point you are comfortable with.