#21
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Sigh, as I said a few times, the Velodyne SMS-1 was just there to give me a video diplay of the effect of changes made on the Bryston or the JL Audio sub. No changes were made on the SMS-1 and it is no longer connected to anything.
The splitting the signal affects phase comment is interesting. Are you sure? I do not know a lot about this, other than a decay slope does change phase, but I thought only at the crossover point. Since the frequency response at the 40H crossover is flat, I thought the phase at that point was necessarily equal. And if so, why would that adversely affect a second crossover circuit down signal from there in a frequency range nowhere near 40H? |
#22
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Regards, Jim
__________________
It's all about the Music, but I sure like the way my gear makes it come alive! |
#23
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Maybe jdandy can chime in here.
The crossover doesn't cause a problem with the Fathom subs and phase. I just don't want to give an answer that's only half right. |
#24
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#25
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Maybe. I have Jim Smith's book and he sez 2 subs for a 2-channel rig.
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#26
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Yeah, I have my Elgar on a 6x6 piece of granite.
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#27
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Randy.......Yes, there will be some break-in time associated with the new interconnects, although not more than about 50 hours tops.
With respect to phase shifts at the crossover points, this is an excerpt from the 6moons review of the Bryston 10B Sub active crossover: One thing not immediately obvious is that while the 10B gives you the ability to dial in filter slopes (the degree at which the signal is attenuated below the filter frequency as expressed in decibels of attenuation per octave), it also alters signal phase at that frequency. This isn't so much a feature as it is a natural byproduct of altered slopes. The 6dB position shifts the signal at the filter frequency by 90º, the 12dB by 180º and the 18dB by 270º. This should be considered when selecting the phase setting at the sub. As I found out, it can be extremely useful in blending the sub/s with the speakers. Don't forget that the same changes happen at the high-pass frequencies for the main speakers too. But it must also be understood that the phase changes are effective only at the crossover points, not over the entire speaker bandwidth. A 180º shift will not necessitate the reversing of the speaker leads. These small phase changes can result in a much-improved blend between sub and speakers and a little experimentation is strongly advised. These phase shifts are only at the crossover points, and only in the drop off slopes, so they do not impact the signals you are sending to your speakers. These are the frequencies you intend to roll off anyway. Nothing to be worried about.
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Dan STUDIO - McIntosh C1000C/P, MC2301 (2), MR88, Aurender N10, Esoteric K-01X, Shunyata Sigma spdif digital cable, Sonos Connect, PurePower 2000, Stillpoints, Furutech Flux 50, Michell Gyro SE, Michell HR Power Supply, SME 309, Ortofon Cadenza Black, Wireworld, Sonus faber Amati Anniversario LIVING ROOM - McIntosh C2300, MC75 (2), MR85, Magnum Dynalab 205, Simaudio MOON Neo 260D-T, Schiit Audio Yggdrasil, Aurender N100H, Shunyata Sigma USB cable, Micro Seiki DD40, Ortofon Cadenza Blue, Nakamichi BX-300, Sony 60ES DAT, PS Audio P10, Furutech Flux 50, Sonos Connect, Stillpoints, Wireworld, Kimber, PMC EB1i, JL Audio f113 VINTAGE - McIntosh MA230, Tandberg 3011A tuner, Olive 04HD, Sony DTC-59ES DAT, McIntosh 4300V, JBL 4312A Last edited by jdandy; 10-29-2012 at 05:52 PM. |
#28
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http://thielaudio.com/THIEL_Site05/P..._TechPaper.pdf
This white paper covers some of that discussion of integrating the subwoofer with main speakers. It's a bit technical though. This review covers an interview with the late Jim Thiel which is a bit more layman in comparison Thiel SmartSub SS1 subwoofer | Stereophile.com "Take a speaker like, let's say, a CS1.6," said Thiel—"a two-way speaker with a pretty good crossover. Even a relatively unsophisticated observer would probably hesitate to remove that crossover and use it in a completely different loudspeaker with different drivers, a different-sized enclosure, and so on—and that's the kind of situation that subwoofers are in with processor-based management or the generic crossovers built into the backs of most of them. And, as you know, crossovers are something I have strong opinions about. "Instead of trying to figure out the filter characteristics you want, I thought we should start with the signal that represents the output you want from the combination of the sub plus the main speaker. To oversimplify, that would be the input signal, and you subtract from it the part that the main speakers will reproduce—you electronically construct an analog of your main speakers that has the same [low-frequency] output characteristics, the same rolloff characteristics, and you take that signal and subtract it from the main input signal. What you are left with, by definition, is whatever the subwoofer will need to put out to blend with the main speakers to produce the desired result. That's the insight that got me excited about the subwoofer project." Another review SoundStage! Equipment Review - Thiel Audio SmartSub SS2 Subwoofer and SI 1 Integrator Crossover/Controller (11/2004) |
#29
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The system is continuing to settle in. Work has prevented as much listening as I would like. Nonetheless, bass has more presence without being louder (the decay seems much more natural), the mid-range is a tad less muddy, and the sound stage is a bit wider.
One surprise to me was that a number of songs that are not bass heavy seemed to be the most affected. A bigger surprise was that the instruments showing more vitality and sparkle were not playing in the bass or even the mid-bass range. They just sound a bit more realistic. I think less bass distortion is yielding less mid-range distortion. Finally, when one does get into a bass heavy song the stereo subs really shine. Drums have gravitas, standup bass has a weighty strum, and sustained low notes provide a rock solid foundation. The system sounded great before so this is not an order of magnitude improvement, but it is not subtle either. It is an immediately noticeable improvement, which gets hard to achieve at some point in system building. I can't wait to finish the burn-in and see what else awaits. |
#30
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Ivan FLORIDA MX136, MC1.2KW(10) MC2KW(2), MCD1100, MS750(2) MVP881, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, HT-2 SUBS(2) HT3F(2) WS350(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) XCS350(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" MOTORIZED SCREEN, CINEMA-TECH SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: ACCUPHASE A300 AMPS, C3900 PRE-AMP, DP1000 CD/SACD TRANSPORT, DC1000 DIGITAL PROCESSOR, DG-68 DIGITAL EQUALIZER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, PS1230 POWER SUPPLY, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, WW PLATINUM CABLES CAPE COD MX150, MC501(2) MC1.2KW(10) MC2301(2) MR88, MVP881, MCD1100, MDA1000, C1000C/P/T, MPC1500, ESOTERIC K-01X 30th ANNIVERSARY (BLACK) SACD/CD PLAYER, G02-X CLOCK, HT3F(2) XRT2K, XCS2K, XR27(2) JL GOTHAM v2 SUBS(2) JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(4) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) KALEIDESCAPE STRATO & TERRA SERVERS 80-TB, LUMAGEN RADIANCE SCALER, SONY VPH-G90U 4K PROJECTOR, STEWART 120" SCREEN, SONUS FABER STRADIVARI, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, FORTRESS SEATING, WW PLATINUM CABLES Analog Rig: CLEARAUDIO INNOVATION WOOD, UNIVERSAL ARM w/ Da VINCI' CART, 2nd UNIVERSAL ARM w/ GOLDFINGER STATEMENT CART, HRS-MXR REFERENCE RACK-GLOSS BLACK w/ M3X SHELVES, AESTHETIX RHEA SIG PHONO-PRE, BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, WW PLATINUM CABLES Reference System: BURMESTER 911MK3 AMP(3), 088 PRE-AMP, 089 CD PLAYER, 100 PHONO PRE-AMP, 948 POWER CONDITIONER, ACCUPHASE DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, AVID ACUTUS REFERENCE SP TT, GRAHAM PHANTOM II SUPREME ARM, BENZ MICRO LP-S CART, GRANDIOSO P1X/D1X STACK, G1X RUBIDIUM MASTER CLOCK, N05 NETWORK PLAYER, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS-SXR CUSTOM RACK w/ M3X SHELVES, SONUS FABER AIDA SPEAKERS, JL FATHOM F113v2 SUBS(2) SOUND ANCHOR STANDS(2) WW PLATINUM CABLES Library System: GRANDIOSO M1 MONOBLOCK AMPS, C1 LINESTAGE PRE-AMP, K1X CD/SACD PLAYER, G1 MASTER RUBIDIUM CLOCK, E02 PHONO-PRE, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, AERIAL ACOUSTICS 20T V2, AERIAL SW12 SUBS(2), CANTON REF K1’s, VPI HRX TT w/ SDS POWER SUPPLY, ORTOFON CADENZA BLACK CART, KLAUDIO RCM, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2, SHUNYATA OMEGA QR’s, WW PLATINUM CABLES Esoteric/Bryston System: ESOTERIC C02-X PRE-AMP, P-02X TRANSPORT, D02-X DAC, G02-X CLOCK, BRYSTON 28B3 CUBED MONOBLOCK AMPS(4), BRYSTON BHA-1 HEADPHONE AMP, SHUNYATA DENALI 6000/S v2(2) EVEREST 8000 POWER CONDITIONER(2) ALTAIRA CG & SG HUBS, AMR-DP777-SE DAC, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, TAD REFERENCE ONE MK2 LOUDSPEAKERS, QUADRASPIRE RACK, WW PLATINUM CABLES Accuphase/Canton System: ACCUPHASE E800 INTEGRATED, DP570 CD/SACD PLAYER, T1200 FM STEREO TUNER, DG-68 VOICING EQUALIZER, PS530 POWER SUPPLY, CANTON REF K3’s, CANTON REF K5’s, SILENZIO MUSIC SERVER, HRS MXR REFERENCE MAHOGHANY RACK w/ M3X2 SHELVES, WW GOLD CABLES |
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