Vinyl Popularity

[greekgod]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Ivan.......I think vinyl sales will flatten out. I my opinion, the "resurgence" of vinyl was fostered by the record industry, audio publications in cahoots with the industry for the advertising dollars, and audio businesses that manufacture turntables and phono cartridges. The resurgenge didn't just happen, it was planned and executed.

The constant remastering of old recordings leaves me disinterested, particularly in light of the prices and production quality that is not always there, i.e. defective pressings, finger and hand prints on brand new vinyl, plus return costs shouldered by the buyer for defects. That last part in particular doesn't sit well with me. I am not a fan of mail orders albums. I was picky when I paid $5.00 an album, but when I pay $30.00 or more per album plus shipping costs I expect nothing less than perfection. Unfortunately I haven't gotten it. It royally pisses me off to have to spend an additional $6.00 to return a defective album, crossing my fingers hoping the replacement will be better. I have had two cases where the replacement was worse than the one I returned. There goes another $6.00 to return it. That takes an album that cost $36.00 including shipping and turns it into a $48.00 album, all through no fault of my own. This doesn't strike me as a shopping experience I'm excited to repeat. Yes, I still buy an album or two every now and then, but always with reluctance until it arrives and is not defective. It isn't a joyful experience. I don't think I am alone in being underwhelmed by the record industry and record seller's inflated pricing and lackluster performance.

I feel ya. I buy most of my new vinyl from amazon.ca. If I get a defective record, I send it back and THEY pay for all shipping costs. I won't buy new vinyl anywhere else.

[greekgod]

Originally Posted by Portugal

I believe that HD digital 192kHz/24bit eliminate (most of) the sound advantage that Vinil has over CDs. And HD digital is much more convenient and durable. Also DACs are improving fast and much faster than turntables.

In the mid term Vinil will still exist as a niche but mostly due to nostalgic reasons and because people like Vinil as an object to hold - not for sound quality reasons.

To my ears, hi rez files have the detail but not the overall magic that vinyl offers with analog recordings. However, I think hi rez files are good for music that was originally recorded using digital masters. For me, I will keep my vinyl for older music but use hi rez files for newer music.

[GaryProtein]

Vinyl will level out and stay flat or go down.

I think after the college kids realize that their costly vinyl disks wear out, get pops and clicks, have surface noise and require lots of care, they will go back to digital. There is an aura about vinyl and the ceremony that goes into preparing a disk for play and seeing the arm track across the disk that can be mesmerizing.

The problem of over compressed recordings on digital is not the fault of the recording process. It is the fault of the producers and engineers and the genre of the music itself. The recordings on vinyl are NOT the same ones as on digital that are severely compressed. The compressed ones are usually hip-hop and other rock crap and the recordings on vinyl are typically classic rock recordings, jazz and finer music that aren't ruined by producers and engineers in the first place to make their music sound loud on the radio.

[j3brow]

Originally Posted by Still-One

I am confused. Lets assume you are correct that "highly compressed, super loud, no dynamic mastering is the de factor standand -- as it is now with most new pop/rock releases" That will be true whether the music is released on CD, as a download or LP. Do you think that a new generation will continue to purchase vinyl if the only "properly recorded" music is older LP's that they do not relate to? I think people in general purchase music they like, and the recording quality is a distant second. If they like the music and have the disposable income, then they might seek a better version.

No need to be confused. The reason new vinyl has the *potential* to sound better than the companion new CD is because the mastering *may* be different. Now, if the recording was red lined during mixing, then the mastering engineer's hands are tied although EQ changes can still alter sound between CD and LP. I said potential because that is a utopian world. The artists many times want the red lined compressed 0 dB clipped peaks to compete with the next band. I have purchased many LPs that are nothing more than CD pressed to vinyl without a dedicated vinyl mastering which is exactly situation you are referring to. Those LPs sound no better and often times worse than the standard CD (for example Jason Isbell 'Here We Rest). On the other hand, there are plenty of bands, old and new, who value what vinyl offers and they are willing to put out a quality product and pay the dollars for a 2nd dedicated vinyl mastering (Tom Petty 'Mojo').

Or they recorded in hi-res 24/96 or above and mastering occurred in hi-res domain. Then files down res to cd vs directly cut to vinyl from the hi-res files by a someone who actually understands vinyl cutting. Hi-res sourced vinyl pressing often sounds wonderful to my ears and certainly better than the redbook CD. yes, of course I would rather just have the 24/96 files on my hard drive but as it now stands, fewer new albums released in hi-res versus vinyl .... Understandably so as those hi-res digital files are the 'master tapes' so to speak and they may not want to give up the good stuff. '

FWIW, I have read many articles on the OP topic and they quote young vinyl devotees stating they purchase new vinyl because it sounds better. Who knows. None of us have a crystal ball but I think the vinyl crest will continue to rise. Vinyl sales have risen every year for at least a decade now. It will never reach CD or download sales volume but I think vinyl is here to stay. Go ask acoustic sounds, music direct their opinion. They keep expanding and expanding. Vinyl is why they are growing.

[JiveTurkey]

JDandy

Thats myyyy jiiiiiim dandy!

Sorry. Couldn't resist. I always think black oak Arkansas. Anyway. I completely know how you feel. Out of all the 'new' pressings I've bought I have maybe MAYBE three that are acceptable. I spent the dough for the Audio Desk ultrasonic German cleaner, best audio upgrade for analog. Period. Now I just buy old vinyl and I'm fooking floored by how well some pressings clean up with that machine. Even things in my collection which I thought previously were 'clean' gained tremendous feeling in the air when played.

Cleanliness is obviously not the issue with new pressings but honestly I'm stunned by how fast new pressings wear out compared to old vinyl. Stunned. I bought a rerelease of Goodbye Yellowbrick Road a couple years ago and despite OCD vinyl care it just sounds like shit now. Two dollar records running through an ultrasonic cleaner that sound better than a new pressing right out of the cellophane is very damning. The new vinyl quality just isn't there ninety percent of the time.

[1KW]

I buy a lot of pre owned vinyl from many different record stores and the albums clean up great, sound great . Yesterday I was in Summit NJ visiting my brother and by chance walked past a record store that has been open since the 1950's. The store has a mix of new and old; I got a kick out of the young people saying vinyl sounds better. I picked up 7 near mint LP's at $2.99 a piece and they sound great. The albums varied from some Eric Clapton, Getz/Gilberto, Squeeze (for my wife), Dire Straits, Paul McCartney etc. I have had the same experience as Dan buying vinyl online which put a bad taste in my mouth as well and now I won't do it again. I am lucky that soundstagedirect is in the next town over from me if I want to buy from a online seller as I can pick them up the same day that I place the order and avoid shipping back if the vinyl is defective. What I really enjoy is dropping into a record store and finding near mint condition vinyl . I have found great vinyl stores where I least expect such as yesterday and when I visited my son at Vanderbilt University in Nashville etc.

[Myles B. Astor]

Originally Posted by greekgod

To my ears, hi rez files have the detail but not the overall magic that vinyl offers with analog recordings. However, I think hi rez files are good for music that was originally recorded using digital masters. For me, I will keep my vinyl for older music but use hi rez files for newer music.

You need to compare apples with apples. Compare the two formats using the best playback for each medium. Or compare them to the tape they're derived from.

[Myles B. Astor]

Didn't they say vinyl would go away in 1980? Blew that one.

Looks like CD will go away before vinyl and we'll be talking hi-rez digital files vs. analog (R2R and records).

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by Myles B. Astor

Didn't they say vinyl would go away in 1980? Blew that one.

Looks like CD will go away before vinyl and we'll be talking hi-rez digital files vs. analog (R2R and records).

Myles.......They (whoever "they" are) have been announcing the death of CD and SACD for at least the past eight years or so. To listen to the pundits you'd think no one buys compact discs any longer, yet CD sales still dwarf vinyl and digital downloads continue to take a growing percentage of all music sales. The numbers clearly reflect that CD sales have declined since their peak, but CD sales remain far stronger than vinyl sales despite the naysayers chatter. Nielsen SoundScan reported CD sales continued their decline, dropping 13.5% to 193.4 million while digital album sales jumped 14.1%. Vinyl album sales actually managed to outpace digital's sales growth, increasing by 17.7% to 4.55 million units. But vinyl sales still represent a meager 1.44% of all U.S. album sales in 2012. To repeat that, vinyl sales represent 1.44% of all U.S. album sales in 2012. With 193.4 million digital album sales versus 4.33 million album sales in 2012, I think the numbers speak for themselves.

[Haydn]

I doubt that vinyl will increase overall sales by that much, at least with the average cost of new vinyl at this time, and DACs could take up a bigger share of the market. Not that they are exclusive. I have both.

Even though some new vinyl has crazy sticker prices, there is one upcoming reissue from theelectricrecordingcompany.com that I am interested in acquiring because of the artist - Leonid Kogan.