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Old 06-13-2021, 02:18 PM
Audible Nectar Audible Nectar is offline
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Question MC205 vs. MC255....anyone make the switch? Any real world exp? Midwest dealers??

SSIA. Curious if anyone here has made the switch and has any comments. In the market for a Mc five channel amp and since the 205 has recently departed and the 255 is now the current version, I'm curious if anyone has any hands on experience with the newer version. Seems the capacitance has been boosted 50%, went to a "three channel front" option, but as the 205 has been around for over a decade (apparently doing something "right" by being viable that long) I might opt for a late model version of the 205. I investigated a few examples of the 205 but all are out of driving range (if I'm buying used/private party I'm not shipping and really prefer not to in any case) and I'm flexible distancewise in that regard, but since that was coming up bumpkis for results I wondered about new options.

Another aspect is that the dealers in my region don't really have showrooms or the specific product in question - they just order it if you want it and don't have a lot of in shop listening experience with the 255 in particular. It just seems like when talking to dealers it's this theoretical "thing" that even they haven't handled much (that's understandable but it seems a lot of these Mac dealers don't have showrooms but consulting setups where they order-to-suit and just build it in). I'd do a six/eight hour trek one way to do this right with a dealer and maybe even a bit further. Definitely on the "wanna get this right" train. I could phone a local dealer and just order a 255, but a 5-8K purchase sorta begs for me to be investigating how best to do that in the current, as I only set foot in a local B&M recently for the first time in forever, as we haven't had them here let alone a Mac dealer where aside from Magnolia 3+ hours away have no real idea how to approach a Mac B&M dealer sale. This from a guy who went to places like this site or the usual hobbyist sites to find the gears I want for decades, but was in the biz prior.

I also wonder where a Mac SS amp like this goes for warranty service. I know where my vintage SS goes, tube gear, etc because I learned all that stuff but what about a modern Mac amp? Is there a "midwest service central" these beasts get sent to? What's involved in that part of ownership if it comes to that?

I am in Western IL, would travel to other midwest locations to work on this/pick up/see/etc whatever It's weird as I haven't tried to set foot in a Mac dealer in years and short of a locator with addresses have no idea what I'm really looking at (installer/consultant or actual showroom with geeks who preen/know that stuff like the backs of their hands......)

So I'm narrowing my approach from considering an assemblage of vintage Macs to power the theater to an all-in-one solution for the multichannel room, and want to get something I can live with for a couple decades and get it right the first time. With recent events, it seems we are in a bit of an "in between" state with the 205/255 in terms of actual units in the field, not a lot out there specifically on the new one although it's been in existence since late 2019??? I think?

So any comments??

Amp will be powering five Cornwalls in a 5.2 configuration, MX151 as preamp. This seems the last major choice to be made on the home theater rebuild, so before I spend 5-8K I'd like to find out what I can find out before I do so
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Old 06-13-2021, 04:24 PM
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Yamaki Yamaki is offline
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You touched upon the production life of the 205 which, to me, indicates the quality of McIntosh gear in general and the 205 specifically. As far as specification differences I'll leave it to you to read the specs on both units and determine if anything noted as different there makes any difference to you. Specs will never tell you how it sounds to you. Rather, that comparison can only be made if you can listen to the units.

It seems to me that a late production 205 would be a good choice and that selection tracks with what you decided to do when purchasing the MX151. That is exactly what I did. There are used ones available and I see two units on Audio Classics' website. I will say I have been very happy with all of my purchases from that firm.

McIntosh Service Center link:

https://www.mcintoshlabs.com/support/servicenetwork

You'll have to read the warranty terms to determine who is responsible for transportation. Repairs under warranty should be a no charge.

It's a tough decision but since you may not be able to do an A/B compare a 205 with a 255 I suggest you make the drive to listen to a 255 in stock and being demo'd by a dealer.

Good luck with your search.

PS: You don't need a PC to set up the MX151 but if you think using one would be easier for you then go for it.
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Old 06-14-2021, 09:49 AM
Audible Nectar Audible Nectar is offline
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I try not to get too hung up in specs, but since those are what I have to go on for the moment, I'll lay out what I see in those......because I don't have a local dealer with this stuff on display (search for those more distant resumes today), I can make the most of what I have read so far.....

The 205's long life in production is a selling point. Must have been something right with that product to keep it as such for so long. If a 255 didn't exist, on balance I would probably push hard for the 205 (and still well might), but the 255's listed "bona fides" have my attention, as follows:

50% more filter capacitance: I have spent a goodly part of my audio life (on the tube side in particular) watching/dealing with smaller power supplies and getting them boosted. That aspect of an amplifier seems to translate in many ways to how the amp controls the speaker. Take an MC30 and beef up the power supply (yeah, I know, not cool to alter the schematic but in research this stuff is useful) to see if that "waver" in the midrange changes as you tighten/firm up the bass response. It does, in both instances, which makes it a "different" amp, but illustrates the point, that reworking that stuff can matter in real world operation.

One "critique" I see on occasion in SOME corners, primarily in systems where inefficient speakers are used and the 205 used as mains, that the amp can run out of steam on the low end when pushed, all channels driven. It's highly unlikely I would have the issue, because I have Klipsch Cornwalls, which are 101 db efficient and therefore this amp would likely NEVER see anywhere near full output, even on peaks.

The amp would likely be living in the 250 milliwatt to one watt range primarily, 10 watt peak, with everything else as reserve. So I don't suspect that five channels driven full is an issue, and even at that suspect that even as Mac delivers real specs true to the rating that some of today's hard to drive speakers will tax anything short of Mac's biggest beasts. So I don't see that necessarily as a problem here, as many, many , many have not had such issues (albeit in a myriad of arrangements).

I have an Outlaw (ATI lineage) amp that does 10+ watts pretty well - especially for the price. Really quite good. But at 250 milliwatts it's pretty average, and on Klipsch Cornwalls a bit tiring, especially for music listening. What I need is to have this amp do is a "250 milliwatt tap dance" such that the modest, conversation listening is as clear and smooth as it is opened up. Mac does really well historically when it comes to voicing/matching/high frequency handling on speakers like Klipsch Cornwalls.

My MC250s do that "250 milliwatt dance". The bass doesn't fall off a cliff at conversational volume, the presentation stays balanced as it should. I even looked into buying a pair of MC2100 and adding that to my existing MC250 pair to get 5 X 100 watt fully autioformered power to the five Cornwalls (all there will ever be in this system). Even have a rebuilder sourced to redo the MC250s and would have had the MC2100s added to that job. However, it seems that the price of MC2100 has gone up considerably, recently losing out on a pair of those at $1100 each, which would have had me awaiting rebuild on those instead of asking all of the questions here. But when I add the 4K acquisition cost of two MC2100/2105, then 4-4.5K to rebuild them all, I'm in brand new, state of the art MC255 territory and still have a pair of MC250 to play with otherwise.

But that "dance" at most volumes, coupled with how the autoformered vintage amps get along with the speaker, it's another strong consideration. But in the end, it seems that mating an MX151 to an MC205 or 255 would be the better choice, especially for what is in part a theater type install, despite the "lean" toward music and less toward Hollywood superhero flicks. But I still think the "modern" approach is better, especially as I can scratch the "tube itch" and all of it's requisite sonic pallette in another 2 channel system and leave the theater to have a more "modern Mac" core presentation.

Which brings me to notable "spec" number two, which is the configurability to three channels as "front soundstage" amplifier on the MC255. This is another "step towards" another suggestion made on another forum - why not go whole hog and do MC303 for fronts and an MC152 for the rears. Well, that's 16K for that layout, maybe 10-11K used if I could locate, and what might be nice but yet a more cost effective "middle" seemingly now being available by way of the MC255.

That "middle" being a bigger power supply than an MC205 AND the ability to dedicate the amp to three channel @ 250WPC does seem to make it an interesting "merge/step between" the 205 and the 303/152, doesn't it?? This seems a response to what seems a lot of people using the MC205 as a mains amp - where Mac probably envisioned most high end customers doing MC303 for front stage and then 205/207s to fill out the effects channels. But as many used - and really tested the MC205 as a mains amp, the next logical step is to "hybridize" the feature set to allow one who really "uses" the power of the 255 to adjust/dedicate the 255 like an MC303. It's an interesting option/proposition/rework WRT the MC255.

So since I haven't yet located a dealer where I can listen, the specs certainly are something I'm looking at, not so much as a "spec driven guy" (after all, the MC30 is only guaranteed less than a half percent THD as one of the best midrange amps ever it doesn't matter) so specs aren't a "thing" for me other than trying to read between the lines of the good people's thinking at Mac to envision their intention as to why it would even be necessary to make a new five channel amp in the first place. They made the MC205 for 14 years, they could make it for another 10 and no one would complain, so there is a certain amount of "reading the tea leaves" on the specs, mostly because that, and your comments and pics are all I have :-)

I do appreciate your thoughts.
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Old 06-15-2021, 10:48 AM
thughes thughes is offline
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I have had an MC205 for years, probably ten or more. It now drives my side and rear speakers. I am content with it, but it does have the 205 hum that you can hear if you are close to it. Perhaps the MC255 has cleared up that issue.
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Old 06-15-2021, 01:21 PM
Audible Nectar Audible Nectar is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by thughes View Post
I have had an MC205 for years, probably ten or more. It now drives my side and rear speakers. I am content with it, but it does have the 205 hum that you can hear if you are close to it. Perhaps the MC255 has cleared up that issue.
Yeah, some do have that hum from my research on that piece it apparently varies - however a Van Alstine "Humdinger" will apparently fix it. It's a bit annoying but also apparently solvable. Everyone I have seen comment on that issue says the either the Humdinger or a Mac service center installing a similarly functioning unit into the amplifier solves it; I've also seen a few turn away and say "I just don't think even though it's solvable that I should have to put up with that", etc, and that's understandable too, but if buying a used piece for 3/3.5K less that becomes a more tolerable issue, since it can be easily fixed.

The other "issue" I have seen come up with 205s is "running out of steam" when driving hard to drive speakers as mains, but it seems a select issue with those "inefficient speaker users" whereas the Cornwalls are very efficient, where the amplifier would be operating at the 250 milliwatt to a few watt area most of the time. It will likely never be taxed in that way, even in peak scenarios I wouldn't think......

I guess the larger power supply/filter caps in the 255 might certainly benefit, now it becomes a cost-benefit analysis I suppose. Still haven't found one who's heard BOTH, though.....

Back to the phone calls......
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Old 06-16-2021, 12:16 PM
thughes thughes is offline
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Quote:
a Van Alstine "Humdinger" will apparently fix it
I had the Hundinger in my last setup, but when I moved to my built in home theater, I never put the Humdinger in. My 205 far enough away, I don't hear it.

I had the 205 running five main speakers for very little time. I don't remember that it ran out of steam, but I replaced it for the mains with an MC452 and an MC601 -- more power, autoformers, and quad balanced. I only use the 205 for sides and rears, and running out of steam isn't much of an issue there.
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Old 06-16-2021, 12:18 PM
thughes thughes is offline
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Your profile says you live in Illinois. Where in Illinois? What range are you willing to travel for a dealer?
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Old 06-16-2021, 02:43 PM
Audible Nectar Audible Nectar is offline
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For the RIGHT situation, maybe all day.

I'm in Western Illinois. No local Mac dealers. Thinking something within a 6 hour drive, but if they had the right product (like a late model light use 205 still hanging around the stable they were willing to make a deal on) I might well drive to Texas. I did in fact for an MX151 that was mint perfect in condition and from a seller with a iron clad rep who actually acted like they wanted to sell a preamp. Motivated seller who cared who ended up with a buyer who was happy with the piece. I'm a guy who goes out of his way to make it easy for a seller, too.

I've made no less than nine phone calls to dealers in a four-ish hour radius, ranging from an answering machine that simply states "we're not taking phone calls right now" (and doesn't take a message) to a person on the other end of the line who would place an order for list price on a 255 if desired (only after my specifically asking and traveling to said office) and otherwise not knowing anything about the product or even seeming motivated to sell an amp. I got ONE out of nine who we might go see, but it's a new one, and we're still looking at the 205's on used sites or any other available source (including dealers), at least as a "possible" through used site searches and calling dealer lists. 255 looks good on paper but have yet to talk to anyone who has heard it.

Found a dealer who has a 205 listed with some of the "desirables", listed on one of the sites, 36 hours into the listing no answers on whether they have a manual, anything about the unit oil terms of pics, shipping arrangements, or anything else. No pics! No answers! And this guy's a Mac dealer?????

Checked Audio Classics on a 205, they have C and D grade, we want one in good shape (in AC speak a B) and preferably recent/latter half of the production cycle. OR open to a 255. Binghampton/Vestal is 14 hours, though, one way. Want to know more about the 255 though..

And it goes like this on new: Dealer can't sell to anyone on a new amp other than in person, so I have to come in, one seller out of nine has knowledge even generally about the units in question by phone, none have one on demo (a lot of these are consulting offices where they order and build to suit - no "store" or "floor" to really see apparently besides an office and a few select pieces maybe??)

So I'm hesitant to drive to a dealer hours away if I'm not showing up to sign for an MC255 at list price plus tax sight unseen, to be delivered later (which in and of itself isn't a problem) or an MC205 for a better price within the listed parameters. I can't get answers on the pieces through dealers even, it's why I'm here :-) And I have to make TWO trips for the new amp too, one top sign.pay for it, one to pick it up after delivery.........

It's really a rather disconcerting and irritating situation though. I can't find out much of anything about the 255 besides a sales/spec sheet and an unboxing video, the 205 seems like a "known known" and a safer choice to buy on the blind, without hearing, and having a likelihood it's gonna be reliable (by way of it's 15 year manufacturing run, no doubt Mac had it right by the end of the production cycle). I've had quite the merry "band" of unmotivated used sellers listing this amp who don't want to answer questions, and a set of regional dealers who have been anything but interesting or really very helpful, save for maybe one.

But to answer the question, for the right situation, half way to the coasts if I have to.
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Old 06-17-2021, 10:04 AM
thughes thughes is offline
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Old 06-17-2021, 11:05 AM
thughes thughes is offline
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I think it's a long shot that you will find a place that has both the MC205 and the MC255.
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