Accuphase DP-720

[bvdiman]

Originally Posted by meltemi

bvdiman...Sorry, my against "better at half price" argument was somewhat unfair in this context.
Assuming a distributor outside Japan would have to pay the price published for 1.5m NA3-R (Yen 45'360 = EUR 332,-) adding it's own margin (= dealers price between EUR 498,- and EUR 664,-) and the retailers margin (= list price between EUR 747,- and EUR 1'328,-), the price would then be similar to AQ Diamond's (EUR 1'195,-).

AFAIK you have the same SACD/CD and may be Voicing EQ, but neither the same amps (Soulution ?) nor the same speakers nor Ic's and Sc's.
If I had the opportunity to get an AIM NA3-R for a test, I'd give it a go. But I do not like buying without being able to listen before. Occasionally not doing so in the past eventually cost me too much money. That is just my "no risk, no fun" attitude.

meltemi, no you got it right. I bought mine from a Japanese on-line store and had them delivered to an address there (they only do local sale), then had someone pick-up and deliver them to me. So I paid only Japan retail price, which is about "half the price" of equivalent length AQ Diamonds - approximately.
Don't get me wrong, the AQ Diamond RJ/E is still an excellent cable ~ I could see it excel in some systems which need to cut down a little weight and appreciate that added zest of high frequency brilliance.

I hear you.. I did buy them blind/deaf? based on few Japanese Magz which rate them highly/Gold Awards for few consecutive years, atop the Acoustic Revive LAN and AQ Diamond which I already had at that time brought out the curiosity/itch in me. As I'm not using the DG unit and only needing a single piece of HS-LINK, decided to gamble on it. Luckily, it did not disappoint, and for the money, I think it is definitely worth it. Even if you ultimately still prefer the AQD in your system later on, I'm sure you will still appreciate for what it does very well ~ quiet:smooth:dense:natural.. To my ear, simply put ~ more analogue sounding.. Slightly different flavor.

No, I don't have the Soulution710 anymore..
Currently: Accuphase DP900/DC901 > FM Acoustics 268 > Accuphase A200s / FM Acoustics 115s
Cabling are Siltech Double Crown loom for Accuphase, and mix of FM Acoustics P.I.Ts and Forcelines3 for when using FMA amps. Speaker: Tidal Contriva Diacera TT

*Hope we are not de-railing this thread too far off-course, as I see it perhaps useful too for Accuphase Digital owners wanting/contemplating to upgrade their supplied green HS-LINK. And all I can say is "Do-it"!

[One and a Half]

The DP-720 arrived and could hardly contain to play the first SACD.
Appearance and build quality is second to none. Packaging survived the plane from Japan, and 4500 miles of road freight.
Accuphase very kindly supplied a sampler SACD and CD. These recordings, mixture of classical and acoustic jazz are stunning, but they don't provide any further information such as label and disc numbers... oh well.

The main experiment was to compare a burned DSD_DISC DVD compared to playing the same DSF files from a PC via Playback Designs MPD-3. The DVD media itself was nothing special, IIRC bought at the supermarket, but the sound bettered the PC/DAC combo by a noticeable, margin on familiar material.
Stage height was a little higher, but width increased by quite a lot, positioning of individual instruments was very easy to define.
Drums fared very well indeed, not a paper bag in sight, and the little micro details of small percussion instruments are there in spades. Fatiguing sound, no, just wanted to hear more and more. Piano is just gorgeous.
With only a weekend to listen, tried other burned DVD's of different music styles, still noted improvement compared to computer playback.

If you are in the market for a standalone DAC, the DC-37 that uses the same config as the DP-720 is sure to be a winner. I wanted to play SACD's so chose the 720. The next step would be to try the USB input to 192fs for PCM, see how that turns out.

Another happy Accuphase customer!

[soundslikemusic]

has anyone compared the DP550 vs DP720 ?

How big of a jump from DP550 to DP720 playing normal CDs ?

Thanks

[tp1]

Originally Posted by One and a Half

The DP-720 arrived and could hardly contain to play the first SACD.
Appearance and build quality is second to none. Packaging survived the plane from Japan, and 4500 miles of road freight.
Accuphase very kindly supplied a sampler SACD and CD. These recordings, mixture of classical and acoustic jazz are stunning, but they don't provide any further information such as label and disc numbers... oh well.

The main experiment was to compare a burned DSD_DISC DVD compared to playing the same DSF files from a PC via Playback Designs MPD-3. The DVD media itself was nothing special, IIRC bought at the supermarket, but the sound bettered the PC/DAC combo by a noticeable, margin on familiar material.
Stage height was a little higher, but width increased by quite a lot, positioning of individual instruments was very easy to define.
Drums fared very well indeed, not a paper bag in sight, and the little micro details of small percussion instruments are there in spades. Fatiguing sound, no, just wanted to hear more and more. Piano is just gorgeous.
With only a weekend to listen, tried other burned DVD's of different music styles, still noted improvement compared to computer playback.

If you are in the market for a standalone DAC, the DC-37 that uses the same config as the DP-720 is sure to be a winner. I wanted to play SACD's so chose the 720. The next step would be to try the USB input to 192fs for PCM, see how that turns out.

Another happy Accuphase customer!

Thanks for the feedback 1.5 ! I look forward to the results of your further tests. Are you planning on comparing 16/44 music between the CD and USB inputs?

[One and a Half]

Originally Posted by tp1

Thanks for the feedback 1.5 ! I look forward to the results of your further tests. Are you planning on comparing 16/44 music between the CD and USB inputs?

It's easy to do, in two weeks time.

[One and a Half]

The DP-720 maxes out at 192kHz on PCM only and doesn't decode DoP. As part of an overall Computer versus Spinner evaluation, the Redbook CD or SACD won over the USB input of the same material (redbook and DSD64) when A/B. I used Jriver 20 and Audirvana + 2.0.8.

In fairness, the USB input gave as good as it gets from a computer, and the source is the main problem, it's just not good enough. The DP-720 won in every department, resolution, sound stage, instrument placement & micro details. The noise floor is buried somewhere beyond below.

To test the MPD-3 SQ, I routed the coax output from the DP-720 and played a CD through the MPD-3 and compared the two analog outs (XLR).

a) DP-720 --> Coax Output --> MPD-3 Coax input --> XLR Out ---> Preamp.
b) DP-720 --> XLR Out ---> Preamp.

If this was a horse race at the finish line there would be a call for a photo, it's that close, so nothing much in it. This restores some faith in the MPD-3, and conclude the USB (transmission) is the deficiency. I also tried the Grace Design m920 DAC direct from MBP, and HP Z-800 server USB out, similar story, USB needs work to clean up the coarseness and improvement of micro detail and soundstage depth.
I'm not talking hair splitting, the differences are very noticeable.

The dilemma I have now is what to do with purchased 96/192 PCM files to playback on the DP-720. Either use a USB to S/PDIF/AES converter, PCIe to AES/EBU, SRC to redbook, or transcode offline to DSD64 using Audiogate.

I cannot stop playing the DP-720, there's sounds I haven't heard before even from very old AAD CDs. And it's not even broken in yet.

[tp1]

I have been using the DC-37 for a week now and can tell you that USB input is superior to SPDIF. However, regular computer sources such as windows or MAc based PC's are always going to sound worse than the Accuphase disc system due to electrical noise produced by computers.

The galvanic isolation of the USB interface is better in theory than in practice but you can still get superb results using a different source. I have had great success with a Raspberry Pi unit operating Rune Audio ( Linux based) and there are a variety of specialist servers available such as SOTM and Antipodes.

The purpose built servers use linear power supplies instead of the noisy switchmode, ( significant difference in itself), they use special low noise USB output cards which avoid the main board USB bus, use internal drives to store music and the lowest power processor for the job, often single core. The effectiveness of the $50 Pi is due to the fact it produces far, far less EMI/ RFI than a regular PC.

[One and a Half]

@TP1, congrats on the DC-37!

On the subject of noise, especially USB Audio, needs to address findings by John Swenson. John measured return (to the power distribution network) noise waveforms created by USB packets close to the DAC's very sensitive USB receivers. This noise varied from several MHz to audible frequencies but only in the area of the USB receiver's circuit.

The packet noise as he has named this nuisance, propagates through the rest of the power supplies and being wide band is difficult to filter. There is a workaround to create a low impedance source at the USB receiver and an outboard regen unit is under development.

Agreed an off the shelf OSX/Win/Linux computer is going to be noisy heck just hold an AM radio next to a computer. With the plethora of other SMPS, however, John found the transmission of noise FROM the computer TO the DAC far lower in consequence than USB packet noise which effects are worse.

Ancient as it is, S/PDIF (also includes AES/EBU for discussions) has none of the packet noise, and operates at far lower frequencies. If the clock synchronisation is worked around, S/PDIF isn't so bad after all. To provide for DSD, S/PDIF requires DoP and is currently limited to DSD64. PCM rates 192 and lower are no issue, and there's quite a choice from the pro-audio arena as well as audiophile engineered devices.

Can't comment on the Raspberry Pi, other than it has some difficulty with DSD and hires rates? Might have been early models.

Media servers which use custom linear or ultra low noise are a good start, they are still computers (to a degree). The software controlling point has to be really great and workable, I rather see another 12-24 months of maturity develop first though. I doubt Accuphase would create such a device, am keen for them to produce a stand alone headphone amp instead, and that would be awesome.

[tp1]

The R Pi plays DSD direct ( Not DoP) to the accuphase with excellent results. The USB audio interfaces could be called "I2s over USB" because they are asynchronous with the DAC master clock controlling the audio stream but with Spdif this is not the case.

I take the point made about USB packet noise although development in this area continues at a rapid pace. I can say that the R-pi as a source did not seem to suffer from a noise related handicap when compared to spdif. The backgrounds seemed similarly black with the USB sounding more focussed and precise. Early tryouts are not conclusive of course but I should make the point that there is a world of difference in SQ through a lower noise floor with the R Pi vs a Mac Mini set up for audio playback. It is not exactly plug and play though.

Accuphase previously stated that the inherent noise associated with streaming audio and the lack of industry standards had prevented them from developing a digital source unit. However, there is evidence that Accuphase is considering exactly that. With the DC-37, the HS-Link spec has been increased to handle 32 bit/ 384 KHz and 1 bit 5.6448 MHZ. There is no spinning disc standard that requires such spec but a dedicated digital server would. So hopefully we will see such a beast in the not too distant future.

[bvdiman]

Congrats One and a half and tp1 on your new acquisitions...
Great infos, keep 'em coming!

*Possibly give the PS-520 a try later up front for even better refinement and musicality.