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Old 01-03-2021, 02:43 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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Default What are your goals with this hobby?

Curious as to how audiophiles quantify their audio goals? For the longest time, I was just going with the flow. Reading all the reviews from all the sources starting from the mid 80's and continuing being interested in gear to today. I have pretty much stopped reading reviews over the last decade. Not going to get into the politics of it but let's just say I am no longer interested in the not so unbiased opinions. The specs, measurements, features, functions, overall take on the product are obviously still useful but can be found elsewhere.

So my question was formulated out of analyzing my own experiences over the three decades plus and asking myself the same question. What is your goal with this hobby?


Now, the answer may be very obvious. Why, the best quality music I can afford! I want the truest, most accurate, most realistic reproduction of sound that is possible. I want all the emotional content, all the heart and soul the musicians poured into that piece of music and all the careful and hard work the sound engineer put into the mixing and mastering process to be reproduced in my listening room as if I was there.

What do you need for that? Why I need the best speakers, the best amps, the best preamps, the best cables and all the tweaks I can afford!

Do speakers sound different? YES! Absolutely! Do amps sound different? YES, Absolutely! Do cables make a difference? Oh Yes! I need a power cord the diameter of a 20 foot South American Anaconda!

So if all the components make a difference AND sound different brand to brand, model to model..... How do you know you are getting an accurate reproduction of music?

Easy! Joe, John, Peter and Malik have confirmed on the forums that my new power cord sounds MUCH BETTER than what they were running before. We are all in agreeance.

Define better please.... The bass is tighter, the soundstage is deeper and wider... The noise floor is lower... The piano sounds more realistic...

Do you realize the sound engineer was NOT using the same power cord or cables for his mixing console? He did not use your speakers. Eeeeh.. So what? Do you think he heard it the same way you are? NO... But the engineer used EQs and other sound processing to master your music... It is not the exact copy of what the music sounded like in the studio... Do all the studios use the same speakers/cables/microphones and do they all sound the same? NO... Do all audiophile rooms sound the same, even with the same gear? NO...



Ok, so then we agree there is no UNIVERSAL GAUGE.

The "this sounds better" argument is purely subjective and means absolutely nothing. Worse yet.... we all hear differently and have a difference preference for sound. Musically untrained, pitch imperfect ears of the average audiophile are no gauge for musical instrument's truth in timbre. Even the professional musicians mistake a Stradivarius to a modern violin blindfolded. No argument there can be made.

But.... Let's assume that one speaker, one cable, one power cord is actually the defining standard of ALL that we envision as being the perfect instrument of accuracy of what the musicians wanted to achieve as they pulled the bows across the strings of their violins....

If one of those power cords, speakers, amps, preamps, cables, etc.. ARE RIGHT, then ALL THE REST are WRONG... Now there is a dilemma...


So what do you realistically want to achieve with this hobby? Do you admire the state of the art gear? Do you covet big, brawny amps costing as much as a Porsche? Does music even matter all that much?

Perhaps if being honest with oneself and saying, I am a gear junky and there are worse habits out there, would more accurately describe a typical audiophile?

I've certainly been guilty of it myself over the years and had a lot of fun along the way.

I have been much more involved with the actual music aspect of the hobby the last decade for sure. I have just enough gear and of adequate performance where my music is quite enjoyable, emotionally gripping and offers satisfying enough fidelity of playback. Whether it is accurate or not, I personally could care less. To my musically untrained but experienced audiophile ears, I am quite satisfied with end result!

How about you? What are your goals and do you view it differently?

Last edited by PHC1; 01-03-2021 at 02:59 PM.
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Old 01-03-2021, 09:53 PM
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Interesting question. One that off and on I have pondered. I started my pursuit of a better system in the 70's. When I was able to begin putting together a fairly good system in the 80's it was bass, and magical imaging. I took some of my favorite disks with me and auditioned equipment. I realize that they were electronic and that optimizing them was at the expense of other music. But for a couple decades it was to capture the magic... dynamic range, imaging... something that appealed to me. I think I struggled with objectives for a while... but wanted good imaging, bass, and a more natural sound. I changed my disks to more natural recordings.

Then about ten years ago I started going to the symphony regularly... season tickets. I managed to move into 7th row center... well actually in the Oregon Symphony hall 8th row left center is better... 7th row is a bit too low. Anyway, this subconsciously started to give me an objective yardstick with which to compare my system. It was completely subconscious... but i switched from ribbon speakers... where trying to capture that sound space and "magic" of transparenc to Sonus Faber. I liked the seamless audio spectrum and natural sound of them. I migrated to better versions and my system closed on reproducing natural unamplified instruments.

I spent a lot of time thinking about rock and other music that is never heard unamplified. Realizing, I think, that one would probably have to get a set of JBL or other speakers to accurately reproduce the genre of the time. I also realized I hate the distortion related to concerts... My system now does a good job of all different kind music while not optimizing any category too much. But is very good at natural sounding.

My goal remains the same: the most pleasing musical sound... rhythm and pace have always been really important to me... if you don't have that you have dry unemotional sound reproduction. Incredible levels of detail are not important if it takes away from the emotional expression. But it has converged somewhat accidentally on reproduction of high fidelity of the original. But with less emphasis on the edges of the sound space as on the musical sounds themselves. The edges of the soudspace is no longer obvious in my system but the natural sounds just come out of silence and take up a large extended sound stage. The lack of the excess high frequency that defined it... I say good to have it gone... it would show up in other placed and cause fatigue.

I could probably write pages on the subject. That is just a quick unstructured response.
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Last edited by George Prentice; 01-03-2021 at 11:58 PM.
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:05 PM
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:12 PM
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:13 PM
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Wow Serge, that’s a lot of complication and tangents you’ve gone through for a simple question. My goals are to enjoy the music I love and have fun playing with cool equipment that helps me enjoy it even more. Too many people just way over-complicate and over-think what should be a fun hobby.
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:17 PM
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George, a very logical approach. You enjoy live music and you want a similar experience at home. So your goal is the “most pleasing musical sound” as you worded it. Let’s assume live music is very pleasing if you are in attendance often. I like live music myself but I am not always pleased with various venues.

I myself am not looking for accuracy as much as I am looking for a musically satisfying moment. Realizing that all the Classical, Jazz, Rock and Blues I have heard live sounded different in various venues and acoustic spaces, I am not a big critic nor would I know how to gauge the recording I am hearing over my system to the way the recording engineer or the musicians played and heard it live.

So does it matter if it is not exactly accurate? Do you spend more to get closer to the more realistic reproduction, whatever that concept may be, do you spend more on the more “pleasing aspect’, so that it sounds good to your ears or both as much as possible. Again, we should take into account the divergence of the reality of the studio and what we hear in our rooms.

This of course helps to evaluate the priorities and the focus of what the system means to us, what would help to get closer to and enjoy music even more if we are spending money and often not an insignificant amount.

Thanks for your input
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:28 PM
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Originally Posted by Antonmb View Post
Wow Serge, that’s a lot of complication and tangents you’ve gone through for a simple question. My goals are to enjoy the music I love and have fun playing with cool equipment that helps me enjoy it even more. Too many people just way over-complicate and over-think what should be a fun hobby.
Tony, judging by the very serious expenditures on audio, I would say many do take it very seriously.

Playing with cool gear is fun, I agree. I’ve however witnessed folks sacrificing other things for that next dream piece of gear to the detriment if the family. I also do blame reviews and marketing hype for that but we are all adults responsible for our actions as well.

I think no hobby, audio included should ever come between the family at the cost but I also see folks spending a lot of money on very abstract concepts with no clear focus.

I think audio is very rewarding in terms of musical enjoyment but does it necessarily have to cost an arm and a leg to achieve a level of Nirvana of one sort or another?

Buying a performance car, boat, RV, airplane, or a yacht, we typically understand and envision the end result and the objective. I’m not so sure that is the case with audio for many. Hence my question.
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Old 01-03-2021, 10:49 PM
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Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
Tony, judging by the very serious expenditures on audio, I would say many do take it very seriously.



Playing with cool gear is fun, I agree. I’ve however witnessed folks sacrificing other things for that next dream piece of gear to the detriment if the family. I also do blame reviews and marketing hype for that but we are all adults responsible for our actions as well.



I think no hobby, audio included should ever come between the family at the cost but I also see folks spending a lot of money on very abstract concepts with no clear focus.



I think audio is very rewarding in terms of musical enjoyment but does it necessarily have to cost an arm and a leg to achieve a level of Nirvana of one sort or another?



Buying a performance car, boat, RV, airplane, or a yacht, we typically understand and envision the end result and the objective. I’m not so sure that is the case with audio for many. Hence my question.


I’m not so sure it’s the case for other hobbies either: people have different goals for any pricey hobby. Some buy a new boat cause they can, some spend beyond their means, some buy one cause it’s cool, some because they read a review touting the latest and greatest, or their buddy has a bigger one, some cause they just want to have fun on the water, and so on. And in the end, some just take what should be a fun hobby way too seriously. I don’t really see it as that different from audio, or cars, or any other pricey hobby.

I agree of course that no hobby should come between family, but any that has the potential for serious passion or serious money, can for some people. Again, it’s not really different from boats, cars, watches, etc. - some take it too seriously, or don’t set out with well-defined goals, or let it interfere with family or financial obligations, and some learn to just have fun with it within their means.
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Old 01-03-2021, 11:06 PM
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I’m not so sure it’s the case for other hobbies either: people have different goals for any pricey hobby. Some buy a new boat cause they can, some spend beyond their means, some buy one cause it’s cool, some because they read a review touting the latest and greatest, or their buddy has a bigger one, some cause they just want to have fun on the water, and so on. And in the end, some just take what should be a fun hobby way too seriously. I don’t really see it as that different from audio, or cars, or any other pricey hobby.

I agree of course that no hobby should come between family, but any that has the potential for serious passion or serious money, can for some people. Again, it’s not really different from boats, cars, watches, etc. - some take it too seriously, or don’t set out with well-defined goals, or let it interfere with family or financial obligations, and some learn to just have fun with it within their means.
Hmm, let me expand on what I mean Tony. Let's say you want a Porsche. Chances are, you have read the specs, you have read reviews, they are genuine, they describe facts and figures, the 0-60, the lateral acceleration numbers, the torque, the horsepower, heck one can even check what it did around the Ring as far as time to compare. You know well enough what you want out of that car and why you are buying it. The room/the performance, the looks, the style, the heritage, the pizzazz... Many reasons but mostly clear defined and verifiable.

What exactly are we buying with a very expensive power cord or a preamp we have not heard? Or any piece of gear for that matter. So in audio it boils down to an opinion of someone, somewhere with a very different audio system, who does not believe in blind testing or measurements, because we do not like measurements in audio. So trust his ears and hope he was being genuine when he described the "this blows that one out of the water"? Of course if the reality of things does not meet expectations.... then we need a more resolving system or better ears? That's to add insult to the wallet injury?
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Old 01-04-2021, 12:17 AM
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Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
George, a very logical approach. You enjoy live music and you want a similar experience at home. So your goal is the “most pleasing musical sound” as you worded it. Let’s assume live music is very pleasing if you are in attendance often. I like live music myself but I am not always pleased with various venues.

I myself am not looking for accuracy as much as I am looking for a musically satisfying moment. Realizing that all the Classical, Jazz, Rock and Blues I have heard live sounded different in various venues and acoustic spaces, I am not a big critic nor would I know how to gauge the recording I am hearing over my system to the way the recording engineer or the musicians played and heard it live...

Thanks for your input
Thx for the response... my approach is logical? Funny, I guess you can’t take the scientist out of me. I think we are looking for the same thing... I am looking for a really enjoyable experience... definitely the most important thing. What I think I learned, is that if you can accurately reproduce real music (acoustics) then you are not sub-optimizing other genre and I end up adding to the pleasure I get from all the music. Cuz when I optimized the satisfaction I got from electronic... it negatively impacted most other... when I optimized for rock, then classical suffered, etc. What I needed and found was an empirical ruler... classical: unamplified acoustical that spans the spectrum from the quietest sound to max spl and all in between, individual instruments, massed instruments, bass instruments, triangles... OK, I heard it there, the scientist... and my philosophy background is showing also.

Interesting, I hadn’t realized that before... why this approach has worked for me. This is actually why I like forums. When I write about stuff my strategy or observations that were not conscious become so. Kind of like I get to learn from myself... what I was thinking.
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Last edited by George Prentice; 01-04-2021 at 08:08 PM.
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