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  #1  
Old 10-18-2020, 05:01 PM
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Question Need an amplifier to "modify" my system's sound

Recently, I changed my speaker cables from 20-year old Transparent MusicWave Super (bi-wired) cables to new WireWorld Silver Eclipses. There is no question whether the result was worthwhile; the improved clarity is really rather remarkable. However, in one regard -- what I'll call "fullness" -- my new sound is less satisfying. I am not about to return my new speaker cables, so I am asking my fellow audiophiles about the likelihood of being able to "have my cake and eat it, too" by now updating my power amplifiers.

At present, I use two 20-year old Krell amplifiers (the FPB 200C for left/right; FPB 250MC for center channel) to drive my Revel Ultima Studio and Voice loudspeakers. I recognize that Krell, among others, have made significant technical improvements in their amplifier designs and performance. Would Krell's new XD amplifiers provide a "richer" sound than my current models? Are there other manufacturer's amplifiers I should consider as upgraded replacements?
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Main System: Theta Casablanca V preamp/processor; Wadia 8 CD transport and Digimaster DDC 2000 DAC (w/all updates); Theta Compli CD transport; Oppo UDP-203 disc player; Lumin T2 music server/DAC; Roon Nucleus+ core (w/Teddy Pardo LPS); SOTA Sapphire turntable (w/ Premier FT3 arm and Hana SL cartridge); SugarCube SC-2 non-destructive "click and pop" removal device; PS Audio Stellar phono preamp; Magnum Dynalab MD-102 FM tuner (w/MD-205 Signal Sleuth FM antenna amplifier and ST-2 FM antenna); McIntosh MC 611 (3), Krell FPB 200C, and KAV-250a power amplifiers; Revel Ultima Studio (2 - L&R), Voice (1 - center), and Embrace (2 sides and 2 surrounds) speakers; SVS PB-16 Ultra (2) and 3000 Micro (2) powered subwoofers; WireWorld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables; various Kimber Kable, MIT, Shunyata, and WireWorld interconnects; Shunyata Denali 2000/T (2), Denali 6000/S, Hydra [original], Hydra 2, and Venom PS10 power conditioners; various Shunyata Delta, Venom, PowerSnake, and Sidewinder power cords, and Venom Defenders (2); Richard Gray's Power Company Substation and 400 Pro; Luxul AGS-1024 Ethernet switch; Sound Anchor amplifier stand; VTI (2) and Billy Bags (4) equipment racks.
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Old 10-18-2020, 05:11 PM
PHC1 PHC1 is offline
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If you can hear the difference with the new cables, specifically improved clarity and you heard fullness and richness with the older cables, then that tells you your amplifiers are capable of much more, in every aspect.

My suggestion would be give the new cables a few more weeks and everything will sound better. The ears/brain just needs to adapt.
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Old 10-18-2020, 06:29 PM
Higgens Higgens is offline
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Perhaps all that’s needed is to give your Krall amps a tune-up. New capacitors, if needed, might breathe some new life into your 20 year old equipment.
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Old 10-18-2020, 07:09 PM
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Default Need an amplifier to "modify" my system's sound

Good suggestions made already - certainly give the new cables some time to burn in. As for upgrading the Krells, yours are Dan D’Agostino designs, who is now of course Dan D'Agostino Master Audio Systems. You might consider his newer Progression amps.
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Old 10-18-2020, 09:43 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antonmb View Post
Good suggestions made already - certainly give the new cables some time to burn in. As for upgrading the Krells, yours are Dan D’Agostino designs, who is now of course Dan D'Agostino Master Audio Systems. You might consider his newer Progression amps.
+1 good choice for you!
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Old 10-19-2020, 01:52 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by AVphile View Post
Recently, I changed my speaker cables from 20-year old Transparent MusicWave Super (bi-wired) cables to new WireWorld Silver Eclipses. There is no question whether the result was worthwhile; the improved clarity is really rather remarkable. However, in one regard -- what I'll call "fullness" -- my new sound is less satisfying. I am not about to return my new speaker cables, so I am asking my fellow audiophiles about the likelihood of being able to "have my cake and eat it, too" by now updating my power amplifiers.

At present, I use two 20-year old Krell amplifiers (the FPB 200C for left/right; FPB 250MC for center channel) to drive my Revel Ultima Studio and Voice loudspeakers. I recognize that Krell, among others, have made significant technical improvements in their amplifier designs and performance. Would Krell's new XD amplifiers provide a "richer" sound than my current models? Are there other manufacturer's amplifiers I should consider as upgraded replacements?
and

Quote:
Originally Posted by PHC1 View Post
If you can hear the difference with the new cables, specifically improved clarity and you heard fullness and richness with the older cables, then that tells you your amplifiers are capable of much more, in every aspect.

My suggestion would be give the new cables a few more weeks and everything will sound better. <snip>
As Serge has mentioned, give your new SPs some time to settle and burn-in...probably on the order of 150-200 hours, if not longer. Side note: Several years back, when I installed some Anti-Cables SPs, Paul Spelz specified 500 hours of burn-in.

You may well find you don't need new amps at all.
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Old 10-19-2020, 03:16 AM
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I want to thank everyone who took the time to respond to my original post. Also, I want to respond to a number of their suggestions and observations. First, both of my amplifiers were sent back to Krell in 2017 for complete restorations. Second, my Silver Eclipse speaker cables have had 300+ hours of listening level music played through them at this time, so maybe additional hours will help. Third, my Revel Ultimas all have aluminum-alloy dome tweeters and aluminum midrange woofers; aluminum is known to have a tendency to be somewhat bright and even at times a bit harsh sounding. My prior Transparent cables might have mitigated that brightness with their own "mellowness", though that is just a supposition on my part.

I live a long, long way away from any high-end audio dealer. It is not really practical for me to audition a number of candidate amplifiers, should I eventually conclude that would enjoy my listening more if I had amplifiers that complemented these speaker cables (which continue to impress me nearly daily). For that reason, I am eager to receive the thoughts, insights, and recommendations of other Audio Aficionado participants.
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"Do not go quietly into that good night,
. . . Rage, rage against the dying of the light."

Main System: Theta Casablanca V preamp/processor; Wadia 8 CD transport and Digimaster DDC 2000 DAC (w/all updates); Theta Compli CD transport; Oppo UDP-203 disc player; Lumin T2 music server/DAC; Roon Nucleus+ core (w/Teddy Pardo LPS); SOTA Sapphire turntable (w/ Premier FT3 arm and Hana SL cartridge); SugarCube SC-2 non-destructive "click and pop" removal device; PS Audio Stellar phono preamp; Magnum Dynalab MD-102 FM tuner (w/MD-205 Signal Sleuth FM antenna amplifier and ST-2 FM antenna); McIntosh MC 611 (3), Krell FPB 200C, and KAV-250a power amplifiers; Revel Ultima Studio (2 - L&R), Voice (1 - center), and Embrace (2 sides and 2 surrounds) speakers; SVS PB-16 Ultra (2) and 3000 Micro (2) powered subwoofers; WireWorld Silver Eclipse 8 speaker cables; various Kimber Kable, MIT, Shunyata, and WireWorld interconnects; Shunyata Denali 2000/T (2), Denali 6000/S, Hydra [original], Hydra 2, and Venom PS10 power conditioners; various Shunyata Delta, Venom, PowerSnake, and Sidewinder power cords, and Venom Defenders (2); Richard Gray's Power Company Substation and 400 Pro; Luxul AGS-1024 Ethernet switch; Sound Anchor amplifier stand; VTI (2) and Billy Bags (4) equipment racks.
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  #8  
Old 10-19-2020, 03:41 AM
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If you really want to change the sound, the biggest difference is when you replace your speakers, imho.

Perhaps it's not what you wanted to do/invest, but think about it.
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  #9  
Old 10-19-2020, 07:52 AM
GSOphile GSOphile is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jean-Marc jmajma View Post
If you really want to change the sound, the biggest difference is when you replace your speakers, imho.

Perhaps it's not what you wanted to do/invest, but think about it.
+1. Each change you make, especially from an older equipment base, will tend to reveal the weaker remaining elements in your upgraded system. Although argumentative, a hierarchy of components' impact on sound quality, from most to least, is as follows (IMO of course):
1. Speakers
2. Source
3. Amplification
Many would put room and perhaps power subsystem (including cable) effects above these. YMMV.
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Old 03-28-2021, 09:05 AM
kevinj11 kevinj11 is offline
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I have two basic rules:
1) every time I make an audio system change, I expect to hear a significant difference, good or, let's call it less good.
2) Always work from the source through to the speakers, if upstream isn't right the downstream won't 'fix' it.
It's sometimes a game of 'wack a mole' as as an improvement in one thing reveals a weakness in another
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