Tube Possibilities (yes, that's right)

[Formerly YB-2]

Interesting take, but leaves the question open as to whether or not Mullard (and other tube mfgr's) actually did cryo-treat their tubes or tube components. Am neither a proponent or naysayer on the process. Thus far have spent $32 additional on a set of cryo'd KT88s which are still gathering hours. Can't tell any difference in the sound between cryo'd and non-cryo'd. YMMV.

[jdandy]

Originally Posted by Formerly YB-2

Interesting take, but leaves the question open as to whether or not Mullard (and other tube mfgr's) actually did cryo-treat their tubes or tube components. Am neither a proponent or naysayer on the process. Thus far have spent $32 additional on a set of cryo'd KT88s which are still gathering hours. Can't tell any difference in the sound between cryo'd and non-cryo'd. YMMV.

Glenn.......I have never purchased any cyro'd tubes. There's plenty of claims bantered about but I don't see any substantiated verifiable benefits that come from cryogenic treatment of vacuum tubes, not to mention the unknown characteristics of what happens to a tube's internal parts after cryogenic treatment. The notion about increased longevity doesn't seem to have any documented data to support such claims. The bottom line for me is I have gotten great service and longevity from normal production tubes. I see no genuine incentive that would push me to purchase cryo'd tubes.

[rnrmf1971]

The article puts things in perspective, from the engineering perspective, but I was waiting for the part where the author compared various cryo and non-cryo treated tubes to report the results to the reader.

It reminds me of articles about why cables, hi-res recordings, and other audiophile tweaks/pursuits are argued as being without merit.

I've never had any cryo treated tubes so I can't speak to what the process may or may not do with regard to the sound, which is the ultimate question for me.

[prepress]

The Black Diamonds have only 11:41 on them now, and I've noticed nothing new. This is mostly NPR and BDs, which sound pretty good overall. The '60s CDs are documented, and I haven't played any vinyl or laserdiscs. Even the JJs with the Transparent Plus didn't tame the CDs completely, but the combo helped.

Still unsure if I'll give the Mullards another chance (say, 40–50 hours more) or go right back to the JJs. The Mullards were certainly clean and coherent for the little time they got. If I put them back in, it may well be to try them with the brighter material specifically. But we'll see, since the bass lightened up as they got more playing time. Not good. Maybe it'll be reborn with more time?

[prepress]

Ok, so yesterday I removed the Telfunkens and re-installed Mullards, primarily to see how they handle the '60s discs. I'm not 100% sure this is the pair that was in the line stage; I think it is. The Mullards got a dose of my usual references last night. The Atlanta Symphony Orchestra CD of Copland music sounded good, as did The Avengers on BD; this despite the low frequencies having not quite the same power the JJs have. I definitely missed their bottom end during the Soundgarden track over The Avengers' closing credits.

And then there was Rock 'n Roll Relix disc 1964–1965. This was the downfall of the Telefunkens, with their brighter sound. One thing helping the Mullards is they seem to be more focused (organized, cleaner?) in their sound. Their presentation is a bit different too, as on some songs the vocals were more subdued. But In the Midnight Hour was easier to take with the Mullards than with the Black Diamonds. Still bright, but easier. The saxophones didn't hurt quite as much to listen to.

Listening to NPR, voices had a brighter edge than with the JJs. This may be due as much to Kimber Hero ICs rather than Transparent Plus being on the tuner as anything; the Kimber is less neutral, I think. I'll have to test that by moving the TP from my SACD player temporarily one day.

I will plan to play the rest of my test material and see how things shake out. I really do intend that the Telefunkens be the last tubes I buy in terms of experiments. Either the Mullards will grow on me in the extra time I give them, or the JJs go back in and it's done. Well, there's also that ARC/C52 idea, but not yet on that.

[prepress]

Ok. The Mullards have 14:51 on them. I remember what I liked about them initially. A nice crisp top, and really good detail, especially (I think) some extra transparency over the JJs; the word "clean" comes to mind. The '60s stuff went in the MCD301 (which the Mullards hadn't seen before), and the result was then a bit mixed. A bit less annoying than the Psvanes as far as brightness, but still tough to listen to. On some tracks the lead vocal was hard to hear. On better recorded material the balance between highs and lows seems nice. The low-frequencies, while not quite as much power as the JJs, are pretty satisfying thus far.

But by the time I got to a Verve anthology of Antonio Carlos Jobim (not a reference disc, I just wanted to play it), I had a headache. As an experiment, I'm going to adjust the treble and se how things are. I set it to -2 for the last track of the Jobim disc, and it didn't help much; maybe a little. I need to try that with the '60s stuff. And there are more reference DVDs to get to. It may be that I'll just have to resign myself to playing some of my music at lower volumes, but the reduced-treble experiment needs a chance first.

[jdandy]

Charles.......Wait, don't tell me your reference CD's for evaluating new tubes in a McIntosh system are 1960's remixed compilation discs you bought from a late night TV commercial. .

[prepress]

Originally Posted by jdandy

Charles.......Wait, don't tell me your reference CD's for evaluating new tubes in a McIntosh system are 1960's remixed compilation discs you bought from a late night TV commercial. .

No, got them from Collector's Choice Music. There's also a 5-disc Rock n' Roll Relix set for the '70s, that one from Sony.

Since I listen to a variety of things, it would be reflected in the variety of material I took to any audition of gear (as it was for the C2300 audition); so it is at home. But because I have a dual-purpose system video is a major part, and I have discs for that, too. Much of the audio material, at least, is not audiophile-approved.

[prepress]

An interesting tidbit. The Magnum Dynalab MD108T Signature and 109SE tuners use Telefunken Black Diamonds. The 109SE is MD's top-of-the-line tuner.

Given recent experimenting with power cords and my 2300's tone controls, perhaps I was a bit hasty with the Telefunkens . . .

[jdandy]

Charles.......These tubes you are calling Telefunken are Black Diamond Telefunken Elektroakustik tubes. Telefunken Elektroakustik is a trademarked name for a particular line of JJ Tubes. They are not Telefunken tubes. There is a difference.