Tony aka antonmb's system

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by Antonmb

New addition. I had a REL B3 Britannia a few years ago but sold it when I got the Amatis. This sounds awesome so far: bass is clean and fast (1000 watts driving a 12” carbon fiber driver + a 12” passive on the bottom), and deep, and imaging is more solid. My wife says I should get two but there just isn’t enough space for a stereo setup, I’d have to move it to the corner and stack them.

Beautiful REL, Tony, congrats!. It looks quite a bit like my REL R-305.

Just curious, why would one need two subs? Bass frequencies are omnidirectional so I don't see the advantage of having a stereo setup. There is no "stereo" at those frequencies. And more is not necessarily better with respect to subs, and may create problems.

I know REL has been using "arrays" of late, but I'm skeptical....seems to me to be a strategy to sell more RELs.

With high-quality subs, its always possible to over-pressurize rooms and create problems with room modes, so my thought is that one should do some measurements with REW and a calibrated mic and optimize based on data to minimize room mode and optimize the pressurization. My thought is the goal is to get the room response "just right", and one sub may be optimal.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by Puma Cat

Beautiful REL, Tony. It looks quite a bit like my R-305.

Just curious, why would one need two subs? Bass frequencies are omnidirectional so I don't see the advantage of having a "stereo" setup. There is no "stereo" at those frequencies. More is not necessarily better and may create problems.

I know REL has been using "arrays" of late, but I'm skeptical....seems to me to be a strategy to sell more RELs.

With high-quality subs, its always possible to over-pressurize rooms and create problems with room modes, so my thought is that one should do some measurements with REW and optimize based on data to minimize room modes.

My thought is the goal is to get the room response "just right", and one sub may be optimal.

Not even close. A pair of subs is way better (but a bit of pain to setup properly).

Bass is typically mixed in mono on tracks (not always) and it varies but instruments are often panned on the soundstage in stereo as we all know. So there is more energy coming from one speaker or the other depending where the instrument is on the recording/soundstage. There is a reason why a speakon connection is hooked up to both channels.

I don’t know how REL recommends a setup of two subs but in my own personal experience of having lived with one JL Audio then two and then stepping up to one monster of a sub instead of two, I preferred a stereo pair by a wide margin. Best was actually with a crossover between pre and amp but that was for a different purpose. In any case, my JL Audio stereo pair of subs were hooked up as independent L/R masters, with long XLR connections, not master/slave.



The hometheater LFE .1 signal is a different story... I’m not taking about HT here.

[bart]

I once experienced a sixpack of JL Audio F113s.
The system was crossed over too high (95 Hz), so it was impressive but not good.

I read a lot of times that a pair works better than a single sub, but I don't understand the reason very well either.

[PHC1]

Originally Posted by bart

I once experienced a sixpack of JL Audio F113s.
The system was crossed over too high (95 Hz), so it was impressive but not good.

I read a lot of times that a pair works better than a single sub, but I don't understand the reason very well either.

It will depend on the recording. How many times have we heard a drum kit way outside the boundary of the speaker? I’m not taking about between the speakers.. on the outside boundary of the left or right speaker. Guess what, that effect is no where near as anchored/grounded/fleshed out with speakers that can’t get quite that low where the instrument can reach.

The first time I heard a well setup system with a pair of subs and a kick drum on some demo disc being some 3 feet away to the left of the left speaker... well I finally got it. It was holographic and reach out and touch me palpable. It was grounded and you could feel it’s presence firmly on the floor.

The jazz performers on the same demo disc actually “grew” legs as the subs were turned “on” and “off”. “On” they had legs and you could sense their height, “off” and it was just instruments hanging between speakers as usual.

There is a lot of ambiance captured by a good recording. There is as much holographic information as musical sounds but most systems will not get to that level because of room acoustics. We worry too much about $$$$ cables but not nearly enough making the room part of the team of holographic soundstage recreation. Subs and the way they pressurize the room for that “ambiance” is the secret. They force your well acoustically treated room to become the acoustic space the recording took place in. Most of the time the speaker/room interaction fights back

[W9TR]

Multiple subs positioned apart from each other work because they excite different room modes and create a more uniform sound field than is possible with a single sub. Stacking subs or subs with multiple drivers arranged vertically (like my Gotham) also excite different room modes but to a lesser extent.

In the LP days there was no stereo bass because L-R is cut vertically and you run out of depth on the vinyl very quickly.

Now there is more stereo bass in digitally recorded music.

[bart]

Serge & Tom, thank you for the explanation.
It clarifies what I had learnt from other posts and reviews.
I might go for a pair of smaller ones instead of one big ass REL sub.

[W9TR]

Well bart you know it’s not really a sub if it uses less than a 30 cm driver.

[Puma Cat]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Multiple subs positioned apart from each other work because they excite different room modes and create a more uniform sound field than is possible with a single sub. Stacking subs or subs with multiple drivers arranged vertically (like my Gotham) also excite different room modes but to a lesser extent.

In the LP days there was no stereo bass because L-R is cut vertically and you run out of depth on the vinyl very quickly.

Now there is more stereo bass in digitally recorded music.

Ah, interesting. Thanks.

[PHC1]

I posted this elsewhere. It has to do with mixing and this topic.

https://ledgernote.com/blog/q-and-a/mix-bass-in-stereo/

[Antonmb]

Originally Posted by W9TR

Well bart you know it’s not really a sub if it uses less than a 30 cm driver.

Tom, are you using one Gotham or two?